Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

[Aethulwulf]

The US experience of COD is that replacement engines are one of the most operationally important cargos. See https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/1 ... very-pilot for a first hand account from a C2 Greyhound pilot.

"During war fighting, aircraft eat engines with foreign object debris (FOD) being the biggest problem. Apparently flying through the debris cloud caused by your attack on a ground target, or the randomly disintegrating aircraft you're fighting against, doesn’t do much good for a jet engine. We would be tasked to deliver two to four engines a day during combat to keep the air wing operational."

With heavy RAS on FSS, for the RN these replacements could be transferred by sea (once FSS is in service). However, the argument for COD is to allow the broken engine to be rapidly returned to 3rd line repair. If you have to wait for the FSS to come into a port before the engines are off loaded, the delay means you need a much greater number of spare engines in total.

Of course, the F35 is not going to be fighting in the same way as previous generations of aircraft. So will it suffer the same rate of engine damage during combat ops? Who knows?

For the RN, which still hopes to bring FSS into service by the time carrier operations achieve FOC, a COD system for engine replacement is a slightly debatable requirement - hence the lack of funding in this area.

[seaspear]

The Tide class ships each have two Pellegrini cranes with a capability lift of ten tons usually for use at land do they have any capability in the ship to ship cargo transfer ?

[Timmymagic]

This would appear to be a show stopper for this aircraft ever being used for COD/Maritime Intra Theatre Lift by the Navy.

Why would we need to move an F135? Everyone seems to think we would need to, but why?

It's a requirement for the USN who used to have multiple types of aircraft aboard, with multiple engine types. Carrying multiple spares for each one used up lots of space at a time when engines were less reliable and their lifespans were much shorter. They also used to park carriers off a hostile coast and pound away for months on end (Yankee Station in Vietnam and the West Coast of Korea) without visiting a port...

But for the RN all we need to do is stick a couple of F135 and RR LiftSystem's in the corner of the hangar in their packing case and its job done. When (and if) FSS arrives the HRAS system could also be used to supply QE with additional engines. Truth is you just don't go through engines at the rate they used to, a full engine change would be a very rare event. They used to carry spare Pegasus onboard in the days of the SHAR and Invincible Class so its not really an issue.

[Timmymagic]

The USN needs COD to deliver an F-35 engine because it lacks the ability to transfer said engine from a supply ship to a carrier at sea. The transfer tackle thingies can't take the weight.

Always been surprised that the USN didn't embrace HRAS for the Ford and Lewis and Clark Class, both were in design/build when HRAS was developed and the USN has traditionally been one of the most interested and forward thinking in the field of auxiliaries and underway replenishment.

The Tide class ships each have two Pellegrini cranes with a capability lift of ten tons usually for use at land do they have any capability in the ship to ship cargo transfer ?

You'd need to be stationary, but even then you'd not want to be mooring ships that close together in anything other than the most benign port. The usual method would be crane an item off to a lighter in port, tow the lighter over to the other vessel and crane onboard then.

With that wingspan you would have to clear a lot of QE deck space for a landing and take off,

Don't think you'd want anything in the deck edge parking (although I wonder just how often that will be used anyway). If they're right about the STOL characteristics it might not need much more than an F-35B run up...the wingspan is slightly smaller (about 4 foot) than a Chinook or Merlin's rotor diameter.

[Repulse]

Given the size of the QE Class one would have though an Engine Bay and spares would be a good base option.

On heavy RAS, it’s interesting to look at some of the older postings on ThinkDefence on the topic.

https://www.thinkdefence.co.uk/amp/2013 ... oyal-navy/

[Repulse]

With a bit more thought, I’m starting to think that with a combination of maximising space of the CVF, RFA Fort Victoria and COD using Chinooks or even a small purchase/lease of CMV-22Bs (which can fly to RFAs or shore bases) the risk can be managed until the late 2020s when perhaps a two ship purchase (one of which to replace RFA Fort Victoria) could be made.

The only thing that could/should be done sooner is a purchase of a HNLMS Karel Doorman type ship to add both solid store replenishment and act as an aviation support ship.

[SKB]

Was looking for spare engine storage spaces. But found it amusing that QE's brig (32) is literally next to the forward gas turbine (25).

[bobp]

Was looking for spare engine storage spaces.

Every time i see that illustration I have to ask where are the rest of the decks?

[Little J]

A cockpit that folds sideways like the Guppies would be useful, but this looks like it is side loaded only...

[Timmymagic]

A cockpit that folds sideways like the Guppies would be useful, but this looks like it is side loaded only...

Side loaded via clamshell doors to fit 3 of these in, in 15 minutes. 1.5 tonne max in each one.

[Repulse]

How big does the Engine Bay need to be? Can it be modularised down one end of the hangar, and removed (and supported by a RFA) if the full hangar space is needed for a high scale operation?

[Little J]

A cockpit that folds sideways like the Guppies would be useful, but this looks like it is side loaded only...

Side loaded via clamshell doors to fit 3 of these in, in 15 minutes. 1.5 tonne max in each one.

Apologies, I should have specified... In relation to the F135 engine

[Ron5]

Was looking for spare engine storage spaces.

Every time i see that illustration I have to ask where are the rest of the decks?

On the other side silly (says PTO in bottom corner)

[Scimitar54]

bobp wrote “ Every time i see that illustration I have to ask where are the rest of the decks?”

Obviously on HMS PoW ...... That’s why she is bigger!

[Ron5]

bobp wrote “ Every time i see that illustration I have to ask where are the rest of the decks?”

Obviously on HMS PoW ...... That’s why she is bigger!

You win!

[seaspear]

I had previously read a few years ago that a complete layout of all of the carrier decks would not be published for security reasons

[Scimitar54]

Let us hope they were not sent from or to PCs using Windows XP then.

[swoop]

...looks like lots of hurdles still to overcome before a prototype is built.

Like "how to take off with a ski-ramp equipped carrier" perhaps?

[PhillyJ]

PWLS out and about again in September, possible trip to Gib according to my Lad but nothing confirmed.

[bobp]

A Chinese viewpoint on the Queen Elizabeth deployment to the South China Sea...........

https://www.globaltimes.cn/content/1194 ... 3w.twitter

[Scimitar54]

The correct response to this should be: A programme to double the number the planned number of Destroyers, Frigates and SSNs. Increase the RN headcount AND order a third QEC together with all required supporting assets. All to be achieved by: 2030!

[PhillyJ]

A Chinese viewpoint on the Queen Elizabeth deployment to the South China Sea...........
https://www.globaltimes.cn/content/1194 ... 3w.twitter

That was a very informative and complete freedom of speech piece...

'The HMS Queen Elizabeth' count was high, I suspect this person also ghost writes for some of the British Press. The comments are worth a read, particularly liked the following snippet.

As for HMS Queen Elizabeth, she had a few minor issues during initial sea trials, since then her entry into service has been remarkably free of problems (we didn't have to put the program manager in prison, for instance, unlike the Chinese carrier program)

And no, I'm not sabre rattling or wishing for the Empire back again, and Britannia does not rule the waves anymore, but I do find it midly amusing.

[Tempest414]

A Chinese viewpoint on the Queen Elizabeth deployment to the South China Sea...........

https://www.globaltimes.cn/content/1194 ... 3w.twitter

I think it safe to say any carrier group capable of carrying up to 36+ 5th gen strike jets is worthy of interest and concern and China will not be happy with it in their back yard. This said if the UK is going to do this sort of thing we should have the right kit i.e 3 new SSS and a base line of 70 F-35b

[serge750]

The way I see it is. that they would not mention it if it meant nothing to them, ok we are just supporting the American stance & hopefully meet up with old friends (Oz ? ) but if you have a Shiny new toy - show it off
I think it will be great to see

Chinas more than aloud to send a CBG to international waters if they want

Russia went past the UK with their carrier TUG group sorry strike group a while ago

We probably wont see another UK CBG that way for a couple of years,

[Lord Jim]

We probably wont see another UK CBG that way for a couple of years,

It will probably be longer than that, but the current planned cruise will be a major achievement and having USMC aboard will also show our willingness to work with allies in the region especially if you add ships from other allies joining the TF on a temporary basis.