Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Contains threads on Royal Navy equipment of the past, present and future.

User avatar
Pseudo
Senior Member
Posts: 1732
Joined: 30 Apr 2015, 21:37
Tuvalu

Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Post by Pseudo »

Ron5 wrote:Why would Germany want a carrier? Never really had one before.
I don't think that it's about Germany wanting an aircraft carrier, I think that it's about creating a capability that would necessitate greater integration of EU member state navies.

Max Jones
Member
Posts: 80
Joined: 20 Feb 2020, 12:48
United Kingdom

Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Post by Max Jones »

Bring Deeps wrote:It is interesting that in the 75 years since the end of WWII there have been no wars in which opposing aircraft carriers have launched attacks on each other. That statistic is even more remarkable given that the first true aircraft carrier wasn't commissioned until 1918. Of course there have been conflicts in which attacks have been attempted or made against carriers in other ways but I am pretty sure none have been sunk.
The Argentine forces were going to give it a go during the Falklands but the sinking of Belgrano put a nail in that coffin.

It probably wouldn't have gone very well for them anyway considering all they would have been able to launch in a major strike operation was maybe 6-8 Skyhawks which isn't exactly overwhelming against 40 harriers.

In modern naval warfare I don't think carrier-on-carrier battles are very likely anyway. The way they are used the aircraft carriers are mainly deployed to support an invasion in a major wartime scenario rather than for naval superiority far out at sea so the opposing forces wouldn't likely have much benefit of deploying its own carriers in a defensive role and in terms of going to intercept an invasion force with carriers, deploying submarines would probably be far more effective.

abc123
Senior Member
Posts: 2900
Joined: 10 May 2015, 18:15
United Kingdom

Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Post by abc123 »

When one country has 90% of all carriers in the world, that's normal.
Fortune favors brave sir, said Carrot cheerfully.
What's her position about heavily armed, well prepared and overmanned armies?
Oh, noone's ever heard of Fortune favoring them, sir.
According to General Tacticus, it's because they favor themselves…

Ron5
Donator
Posts: 7249
Joined: 05 May 2015, 21:42
United States of America

Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Post by Ron5 »

Pseudo wrote:
Ron5 wrote:Why would Germany want a carrier? Never really had one before.
I don't think that it's about Germany wanting an aircraft carrier, I think that it's about creating a capability that would necessitate greater integration of EU member state navies.
I think it's more about France trying to get Germany to spend more defense money in France.

Jake1992
Senior Member
Posts: 2006
Joined: 28 Aug 2016, 22:35
United Kingdom

Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Post by Jake1992 »

Ron5 wrote:
Pseudo wrote:
Ron5 wrote:Why would Germany want a carrier? Never really had one before.
I don't think that it's about Germany wanting an aircraft carrier, I think that it's about creating a capability that would necessitate greater integration of EU member state navies.
I think it's more about France trying to get Germany to spend more defense money in France.
IMO it’s a bit of both, Macron is a supporter of further intergration a joint EU carrier would be a starting point in intergrating defence across the board.

In the eyes of Macron this could be a win win, it gets other nations like Germany to spend more, it’s a strong starting point for EU defence intergration and it’ll also allow France to claim they have 2 carriers as they will most likely be the leak when the joint one is in use.

User avatar
The Armchair Soldier
Site Admin
Posts: 1747
Joined: 29 Apr 2015, 08:31
Contact:
United Kingdom

Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Post by The Armchair Soldier »

Feel free to take your EU carrier discussion to this thread: http://ukdefenceforum.net/viewtopic.php?f=32&t=695 Let’s keep this one for QEC-related discussion.

PhillyJ
Member
Posts: 745
Joined: 01 May 2015, 09:27
England

Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Post by PhillyJ »

Timmymagic wrote:Are you sure on those dimensions?
They were taken direct from the book given to all the crew on commissioning day, I would get my lad to measure and confirm them but as he turned 21 yesterday and we had a family socially distanced BBQ to celebrate he is having trouble counting to 10 at the moment! He was made up though, got invited to the Senior Rate's mess on Friday night and was permitted to drink spirits, which as an AB is a definite no-no normally. As the board attachment limit appears to be ok at the moment I've uploaded 2 pics from his last trip at sea from Feb/March
21.jpg
PWLSRAS.jpg
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

SW1
Senior Member
Posts: 5657
Joined: 27 Aug 2018, 19:12
United Kingdom

Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Post by SW1 »

Now what was that about flogging one of these to Australia


dmereifield
Senior Member
Posts: 2762
Joined: 03 Aug 2016, 20:29
United Kingdom

Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Post by dmereifield »

SW1 wrote:Now what was that about flogging one of these to Australia

It's not flogging them off, it's a proposal akin to that proposed on here multiple times: the UK providing the core of a 5 powers/Commonwealth carrier group. Sounds rather positive to me.

If the UK could provide a Carrier group in the Atlantic (Carrier, 3 escorts, full UK airwing, 2 RFA) and the core of a 5 powers/Commonwealth Carrier group (Carrier, 2 escorts (could include 1 of the forward deployed T31), 1 RFA and half the air wing (mostly rotary, but at least a token number (4-6?) of F35) with allies contributing the rest of the airwing, escorts and supply ships....what's not to like?

User avatar
SKB
Senior Member
Posts: 7931
Joined: 30 Apr 2015, 18:35
England

Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Post by SKB »

Its a newspaper. Its written to sell papers. Not to tell truth.

User avatar
Pseudo
Senior Member
Posts: 1732
Joined: 30 Apr 2015, 21:37
Tuvalu

Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Post by Pseudo »

SKB wrote:Its a newspaper. Its written to sell papers. Not to tell truth.
I'm not entirely convinced that Singapore would welcome the basing of a British aircraft carrier there.

Bring Deeps
Donator
Posts: 217
Joined: 27 May 2015, 21:06
United Kingdom

Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Post by Bring Deeps »

The RN lent HMS Victorious to the US in 1942/1943 to cover their carrier gap in the Pacific whilst the Essex class were building. I think she operated with the USS Saratoga.

I found out recently that it was the UK that requested her return in 1943. Given the reluctance of Admiral King to let the RN participate in the war against Japan in 1944/1945 that was perhaps unwise.

Anyway there is precedent for a UK carrier to operate as part of the USN.

China is like Dominic Cummins in that the more powerful it gets the more it is feared. If not Singapore why not Japan? They are going down the F35B carrier route themselves with the Izumo class and there could be training advantages for them.

Back to HMS Victorious. She was the only ship of the Illustrious/Implacable class to be modernised post WW2. The main reason being the Implacable ships had 14ft double hangers making them too low for modern aircraft and (for all six ships) the armoured hanger design made it very expensive to modify the ships. I wonder if there are lessons here for the QNLZ class. Also I think Victorious was scrapped early due to a serious dockyard fire during her last refit.

User avatar
SKB
Senior Member
Posts: 7931
Joined: 30 Apr 2015, 18:35
England

Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Post by SKB »


User avatar
shark bait
Senior Member
Posts: 6427
Joined: 05 May 2015, 21:18
Pitcairn Island

Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Post by shark bait »

Tighter integration with our FPDA friends and other allies in the Indo-Pacific is a reasonable objective. Integrating them into a carrier group could be a great way to achieve that.

However I do question wheres the value basing anything out there long term, never mind a carrier?
@LandSharkUK

jedibeeftrix
Member
Posts: 509
Joined: 09 May 2015, 22:54

Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Post by jedibeeftrix »

SW1 wrote:Now what was that about flogging one of these to Australia

that would be a daft idea...
...for the uk at least.

PhillyJ
Member
Posts: 745
Joined: 01 May 2015, 09:27
England

Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Post by PhillyJ »

To be honest I thought we'd stopped transporting people to Botany Bay, let alone a Duchess who is mother to the heir to the throne and married to a future King. :wave:

User avatar
SKB
Senior Member
Posts: 7931
Joined: 30 Apr 2015, 18:35
England

Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Post by SKB »

@
PhillyJ wrote:


There's literally a one-way door to Botany Bay in the Hotwalls in Old Portsmouth. :mrgreen:

SW1
Senior Member
Posts: 5657
Joined: 27 Aug 2018, 19:12
United Kingdom

Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Post by SW1 »

jedibeeftrix wrote:that would be a daft idea...
...for the uk at least.
Ino just look how good an idea it was last time they sent HMS Prince of Wales to the Far East.

jedibeeftrix
Member
Posts: 509
Joined: 09 May 2015, 22:54

Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Post by jedibeeftrix »

SW1 wrote:
jedibeeftrix wrote:that would be a daft idea...
...for the uk at least.
Ino just look how good an idea it was last time they sent HMS Prince of Wales to the Far East.
i refer specifically to the logic of selling of one of the two carriers (to australia), not the question of carriers in the far east.

it would be... daft.

dmereifield
Senior Member
Posts: 2762
Joined: 03 Aug 2016, 20:29
United Kingdom

Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Post by dmereifield »

jedibeeftrix wrote:
SW1 wrote:
jedibeeftrix wrote:that would be a daft idea...
...for the uk at least.
Ino just look how good an idea it was last time they sent HMS Prince of Wales to the Far East.
i refer specifically to the logic of selling of one of the two carriers (to australia), not the question of carriers in the far east.

it would be... daft.
Nobody is proposing to sell them

User avatar
RichardIC
Senior Member
Posts: 1371
Joined: 10 May 2015, 16:59
United Kingdom

Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Post by RichardIC »

Bring Deeps wrote: If not Singapore why not Japan?
Are we talking permanent or exercises and goodwill visits?

If it's the former I think it's a non-starter. Most US personnel are now based in Okinawa where they are becoming increasingly unpopular. I can't see Japan being keen on another permanent foreign military presence.

But also, wouldn't it seem deeply odd basing forces in a country with a much larger economy and military capacity (with the exception of nukes and the QEs) than our own? In comparison to Japanese military capability and US forces stationed there any UK contribution to defence of the area would be token at best.

User avatar
SKB
Senior Member
Posts: 7931
Joined: 30 Apr 2015, 18:35
England

Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Post by SKB »

Japan doesn't need further carrier defence, it already has its own "Helicopter Destroyers", the US carriers, and a large green radioactive dinosaur living underneath Tokyo Bay. :mrgreen:

bobp
Senior Member
Posts: 2684
Joined: 06 May 2015, 07:52
United Kingdom

Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Post by bobp »

SKB wrote:a large green radioactive dinosaur living underneath Tokyo Bay.
Would not want to live there for sure.

User avatar
Tempest414
Senior Member
Posts: 5552
Joined: 04 Jan 2018, 23:39
France

Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Post by Tempest414 »

As always we go from zero to carrier in stead of working our way up. for me the best thing we could do in the Far East is

1 ) Have a full time Wave class tanker in the region
2 ) form and take part in a Standing Maritime Group in the region ( 1 escort 6 months of the year )
3 ) deploy one of the carriers every two years inline with the RIPAC EX so they get the best training they can
4 ) bring together 3 escorts , 3 MHC's , 1 Wave class , 1 x LRG under a EoS command

Post Reply