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Astute Class Attack Submarine (SSN) (RN)

Contains threads on Royal Navy equipment of the past, present and future.
Lord Jim
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Re: Astute Class Attack Submarine (SSN) (RN)

Postby Lord Jim » 11 Oct 2018, 18:49

Not that I am aware of. It is more a hanger that can be flooded.

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Re: Astute Class Attack Submarine (SSN) (RN)

Postby Ron5 » 11 Oct 2018, 21:08

If only there was a Haynes manual that could answer such questions.

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Re: Astute Class Attack Submarine (SSN) (RN)

Postby Keithdwat579 » 11 Oct 2018, 21:19

'Hangar' you say....
;)
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Re: Astute Class Attack Submarine (SSN) (RN)

Postby Aethulwulf » 11 Oct 2018, 22:50

Ron5 wrote:If only there was a Haynes manual that could answer such questions.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Astute-Class-Nuclear-Submarine-Workshop/dp/1785210718

Only £6. I'm sure mine cost more than that!

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ArmChairCivvy
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Re: Astute Class Attack Submarine (SSN) (RN)

Postby ArmChairCivvy » 08 Nov 2018, 15:51

Keithdwat579 wrote:'Hangar' you say....
;)


Why waste the space... when you can have a big gun:
https://cdn1.lockerdome.com/uploads/bfd ... 5a95_large

Having updated the avatar, perhaps the post script could be : fu-barista par excellence?

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Re: Astute Class Attack Submarine (SSN) (RN)

Postby Simon82 » 08 Nov 2018, 22:53

ArmChairCivvy wrote:Why waste the space... when you can have a big gun:
https://cdn1.lockerdome.com/uploads/bfd ... 5a95_large

Quite a clever idea those M-class submarines. Getting round the slow running speeds of period torpedos by firing a supersonic, sea skimming 12” missile from a virtually submerged position before scooting silently away. Unfortunately the technology to do that in a practicable fashion was still over 50 years away.
Same goes for the K-class submarines (submersible destroyers would be a far better description of role). Steam turbine propulsion in a submarine is a grand idea, providing you have a nuclear reactor and not oil fired boilers. You’ve got to admire the shear audacity of the attempt though.

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Re: Astute Class Attack Submarine (SSN) (RN)

Postby Scimitar54 » 09 Nov 2018, 22:11

Now that the remaining three Vanguard class SSBN have been found not to need a record for their reactors, will this not, as a consequence mean that there is the potential for the building of another PWR2 reactor or two?
Astute boats 8 and 9 might now be at least theoretically possible.

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Re: Astute Class Attack Submarine (SSN) (RN)

Postby Scimitar54 » 09 Nov 2018, 22:17

Damn predictive text! I typed in Recore, not Record.

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ArmChairCivvy
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Re: Astute Class Attack Submarine (SSN) (RN)

Postby ArmChairCivvy » 10 Nov 2018, 08:57

Scimitar54 wrote: potential for the building of another PWR2 reactor or two?
Astute boats 8 and 9 might now be at least theoretically possible.


News about going ahead with boat 7 and the reactor core delay against boat construction plans (Dreadnoughts incl.) being cut from 51 to 8 months obviously have a connection, but
- were released in reversed order
- with a good delay inserted in between

We might end up building Astutes (with Virginia "payload" module behind the conning tower?) after the Dreadnoughts, anyway, as the couple of billion for starting the A successor design were shunted to the right in the latest EPP.
- to the right, as far as past the 10 years
- which does not mean that it is not planned, just not funded (and no political commitment, the reversing of which might be pre-empted by being "politically" costly)

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Re: Astute Class Attack Submarine (SSN) (RN)

Postby shark bait » 12 Nov 2018, 08:28

Why would Barrow revert to building Astute's after the Dreadnoughts? It will be a 40 year old design by then, with a reactor well out of production, and the PWR-3 wont fit.

Better off building a Dreadnought lite with the Virginia payload module instead of Trident.
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Re: Astute Class Attack Submarine (SSN) (RN)

Postby Jake1992 » 12 Nov 2018, 09:35

shark bait wrote:Why would Barrow revert to building Astute's after the Dreadnoughts? It will be a 40 year old design by then, with a reactor well out of production, and the PWR-3 wont fit.

Better off building a Dreadnought lite with the Virginia payload module instead of Trident.


I thought the new launchers on the dreadnoughts where design to be flexible in the terms that they can launch trident missiles or a multitude of others ?

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shark bait
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Re: Astute Class Attack Submarine (SSN) (RN)

Postby shark bait » 12 Nov 2018, 09:42

That's correct, the idea is to put different paylaod's inside the trident tubes, but I think its only and idea at the moment.

Personally I would be weary of increasing the number of trident 'capable' boats, that's why I suggested the Virginia payload module in place of the common missile compartment. (I bet its also cheaper)
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ArmChairCivvy
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Re: Astute Class Attack Submarine (SSN) (RN)

Postby ArmChairCivvy » 12 Nov 2018, 09:52

shark bait wrote:Why would Barrow revert to building Astute's after the Dreadnoughts?


If you look for the reason on pp.22-23 of the 2018 EPP (Navy Command) you can't find it. But if you read through the separate NAO report, there is e.g. this:
" In response to affordability
challenges within the Equipment Plan, the Department took a number of measures
to make savings. These included delaying by two years its programme to introduce
new remotely piloted aircraft (Protector), resulting in an estimated £160 million cost
increase, and delaying some Typhoon training by one year, which increased costs
by £6 million. We have also reported on how the Department delayed by two years
the development of a replacement for the Astute-class submarine. This enabled
it to remove £1.2 billion of costs"

shark bait wrote:Better off building a Dreadnought lite


Quite a 'fatso' that would be, for hunter-killer duties? Even reactor designs should - ideally - be different for the silent cruising of boomers and the high speeds and spurts required - at times -of the SSNs.

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Re: Astute Class Attack Submarine (SSN) (RN)

Postby Poiuytrewq » 04 Dec 2018, 09:19

Got to be good news :

https://www.shephardmedia.com/news/imps ... rogrammes/

Now just need to do the same with the T26 programme :thumbup:

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ArmChairCivvy
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Re: Astute Class Attack Submarine (SSN) (RN)

Postby ArmChairCivvy » 04 Dec 2018, 09:28

Poiuytrewq wrote:Got to be good news :


The actual story is behind paywall, but this is all indirect bonus from the reactor/ refuelling pipeline getting sorted, the delay in months (against the original plan, which was predicated on the sub building rate) has been cut by 5/6ths.
- so now that the "sub project plan" holds water again,
- you can pull the master (build) plan back together again

Over and over again (over the years, not just on these pages) I have said that SSN availability is the biggest (naval) weakness we currently have. So it is good news that improvement is in sight; can the year-long delay between a "T" going out and an "A" coming in be eliminated? Perhaps the article knows about that...

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Re: Astute Class Attack Submarine (SSN) (RN)

Postby Lord Jim » 04 Dec 2018, 12:18

I really wish we could push back the Dreadnought programme to allow an eighth Astute to be built as most experts believe that is the minimum number we need, but I also wish I could win the lottery this Wednesday or Saturday.

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Poiuytrewq
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Re: Astute Class Attack Submarine (SSN) (RN)

Postby Poiuytrewq » 04 Dec 2018, 13:12

Lord Jim wrote:I really wish we could push back the Dreadnought programme to allow an eighth Astute to be built as most experts believe that is the minimum number we need, but I also wish I could win the lottery this Wednesday or Saturday.
Personally I would rather spend the £1.5bn+ that would require on getting an RN SSK programme off the ground.

Don't get me wrong, I wouldn't complain if we ended up with an 8th Astute :thumbup:

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Re: Astute Class Attack Submarine (SSN) (RN)

Postby Lord Jim » 04 Dec 2018, 14:57

If conventional propulsion technologies keep evolving as fast as they are nowadays I can see a future generation of SSKs competing with SSNs in many roles and making them a cheaper and viable alternative in many ways. Sure it will be some ways off but I think they will get there.

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Re: Astute Class Attack Submarine (SSN) (RN)

Postby serge750 » 04 Dec 2018, 18:58

Might be a good idea for shorter patrols like the med & maybe for rookies to get experience of patrols....

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Poiuytrewq
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Re: Astute Class Attack Submarine (SSN) (RN)

Postby Poiuytrewq » 29 Dec 2018, 08:59

Interesting article on the future Astute replacement.

http://www.hisutton.com/Royal_Navy_Submarine_SSN-R.html
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ArmChairCivvy
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Re: Astute Class Attack Submarine (SSN) (RN)

Postby ArmChairCivvy » 29 Dec 2018, 10:12

Poiuytrewq wrote:the future Astute replacement
The article spells out the two year delay recently introduced, and also the current level of activity "The MUFC program emerged out of the Future Attack SubMarine program of the early 2000s (FASM). MUFC has moved into the initial Concept Phase in 2018 and is spending about £20 million in 2018-19, a fraction of the budget for other submarine programs."
- however that 2-yr delay was about £ 2bn, towards the tail end of the 10-yr EP
- and bumping it over the horizon (or the Marianas Trench?) helped towards balancing the overall EP... optics-wise. More likely: making the SSN availability an issue for the 40's and 50's (just like it is today)

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Re: Astute Class Attack Submarine (SSN) (RN)

Postby shark bait » 29 Dec 2018, 18:47

Fully expect it to be a Dreadnought with the trident tubes removed, anything else will be too expensive.

It's the timeline that worries me, better hope Astute has an easy life because the replacement is coming later than designed.
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ArmChairCivvy
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Re: Astute Class Attack Submarine (SSN) (RN)

Postby ArmChairCivvy » 29 Dec 2018, 19:25

shark bait wrote:Fully expect it to be a Dreadnought with the trident tubes removed


A fat hunter-killer :) ?
- aren't they meant to be able to move and manoeuvre fast... which makes for a very different noise generation than with the boomers lazily moving about

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Re: Astute Class Attack Submarine (SSN) (RN)

Postby shark bait » 29 Dec 2018, 20:36

The boats are built around the reactor, assuming the reactor is the same they will be roughly the same width. The V boats are not much wider than the Astute for example.
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Re: Astute Class Attack Submarine (SSN) (RN)

Postby Caribbean » 29 Dec 2018, 21:07

Personally, I hope the Virginia Payload Module features in any new design
The pessimist sees difficulty in every opportunity. The optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty.
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