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Astute Class Attack Submarine (SSN) (RN)

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ArmChairCivvy
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Re: Astute Class Attack Submarine (SSN) (RN)

Postby ArmChairCivvy » 28 Jun 2018, 18:53

Halidon wrote: if[1] so I'd definitely put that as being in the high end of an "upgraded Astute" range rather than a new design. If the pressure hull's diameter need to be increased and/or [2]new reactor is used you're pretty much in a "new design" space.


I like both of the "ifs"
- as for the [2], could one safely assume electronics minituarisation having some effect also around the core that provides the actual propulsion power?

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Re: Astute Class Attack Submarine (SSN) (RN)

Postby Halidon » 28 Jun 2018, 19:03

ArmChairCivvy wrote:
Halidon wrote: if[1] so I'd definitely put that as being in the high end of an "upgraded Astute" range rather than a new design. If the pressure hull's diameter need to be increased and/or [2]new reactor is used you're pretty much in a "new design" space.


I like both of the "ifs"
- as for the [2], could one safely assume electronics minituarisation having some effect also around the core that provides the actual propulsion power?

Careful, technical discussion of Navy Reactors is where they put the words "Here Be Dragons" on the map.

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Re: Astute Class Attack Submarine (SSN) (RN)

Postby ~UNiOnJaCk~ » 28 Jun 2018, 21:09

In light of the current conversation: https://www.shephardmedia.com/news/imps ... ing-new-s/

The RN has a lot of capability coming in the future with the likes of Astute, Dreadnought and Maritime Underwater Future Capability (MUFC) ongoing concerns but the service also needs to consider capability planning for those large platforms...

...Indeed MUFC is a class of future nuclear attack submarines that is intended to be delivered over two decades after the first Astute class becomes operational.


Seems the ball is already rolling when it comes to Astute's replacement.

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Re: Astute Class Attack Submarine (SSN) (RN)

Postby shark bait » 29 Jun 2018, 09:35

Halidon wrote:Whether the UK can embrace a large-diameter SSN program and see it through past competing budget priorities, I couldn't say.


I'll suggest the tight budget is all the more reason to embrace a fatter SSN, saving billions redesigning the reactor compartment.
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Re: Astute Class Attack Submarine (SSN) (RN)

Postby ArmChairCivvy » 29 Jun 2018, 11:04

~UNiOnJaCk~ wrote: ...Indeed MUFC is a class of future nuclear attack submarines that is intended to be delivered over two decades after the first Astute class becomes operational.



Seems the ball is already rolling when it comes to Astute's replacement


It is gathering moss right now; MDP may change that as obviously it will need to happen (as per the funding plans, it won't even get started in the next 10! yrs. This is how they get balanced, to pleasure the NAO accountants and to deprive the tabloids of even tastier headlines of the "gap").

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Re: Astute Class Attack Submarine (SSN) (RN)

Postby RetroSicotte » 02 Jul 2018, 09:18

Two decades after the first Astute? A new one delivered by 2030? That'd be an interesting deadline to see kept...

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Re: Astute Class Attack Submarine (SSN) (RN)

Postby Clive F » 02 Jul 2018, 09:35

With one class of subs, with 2 sub classes (SSN and SSBN) would there be a lot of maintenance saving over 2 different classes?

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Re: Astute Class Attack Submarine (SSN) (RN)

Postby Opinion3 » 02 Jul 2018, 19:19

I have no idea why a nuclear submarine takes so long to build but there must be a fair bit of exploration along the road of manufacturing efficiencies and speed. Maybe that is what they can work on.

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Re: Astute Class Attack Submarine (SSN) (RN)

Postby Repulse » 02 Jul 2018, 21:48

I believe a study done back in the early days of the Astute class said a build rate of a boat per 20 months for the RN was the slowest pace that would substain the skills needed.
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Re: Astute Class Attack Submarine (SSN) (RN)

Postby Halidon » 03 Jul 2018, 20:37

Clive F wrote:With one class of subs, with 2 sub classes (SSN and SSBN) would there be a lot of maintenance saving over 2 different classes?

I'm not sure I'd exactly phrase it "maintentance saving" as much as "efficiency savings." Buying and maintaining common spares in larger numbers rather managing than 2 smaller sets of incompatible spares, training for the crews and yard workers would be less complicated, that sort of thing.

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Re: Astute Class Attack Submarine (SSN) (RN)

Postby Lord Jim » 04 Sep 2018, 02:37

Reading through the evidence given to the Defence Sub Committee regarding Artic operations, it was mentioned that there are major doubts as to whether the Astute class is suitable for operations under he ice as its superstructure is not strong enough to allow the vessel to surface through ice of any real thickness, compared to the Trafalgar class which could break through over two feet thick. The lack of skills required for under ice operations is also a concern with no RN SSN having taken part in arctic exercises since 2007.

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Re: Astute Class Attack Submarine (SSN) (RN)

Postby Opinion3 » 04 Sep 2018, 06:34

This must be one of the reasons why we need to build more vessels at a higher tempo and in higher volume. The ability to learn from design mistakes, advances in knowledge and technology and to try new technologies needs to filter into our weapons programs at a faster rate than four or so odd decades.

I wonder whether an Astute/Dreadnought hybrid could happen?

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Re: Astute Class Attack Submarine (SSN) (RN)

Postby ArmChairCivvy » 04 Sep 2018, 08:38

Lord Jim wrote: a concern with no RN SSN having taken part in arctic exercises since 2007.


...with one (recent) exception:


The vid also shows 3 (!) Serco boats (tugs?) seeing the sub through the narrow approaches, whereas we normally get to read about the two smaller vessels that the RM force has available to augment base security - armed, as opposed to the rest of that class in service elsewhere.

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Re: Astute Class Attack Submarine (SSN) (RN)

Postby Lord Jim » 05 Sep 2018, 00:57

Ok missed that one but it was the first time since 2007 which doesn't say much regarding continuity of skills. The evidence given to the Defence Sub Committee did mention that both the Swiftsure and Trafalgar class boats were designed to operate under the ice caps but that the design of the Astute class was more concerned with expeditionary warfare and that the materials used on the conning tower especially were not strong enough for effective operation in the arctic.

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Re: Astute Class Attack Submarine (SSN) (RN)

Postby whitelancer » 05 Sep 2018, 22:54

While their is an obvious need for our SSNs to be able to operate under the arctic ice, are their any operational reasons our SSNs need to be able to surface through ice in the arctic?

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Re: Astute Class Attack Submarine (SSN) (RN)

Postby Lord Jim » 06 Sep 2018, 04:30

I am not totally sure but it is probably due to emergency situations where a sub has to surface rapidly. Maybe one of our esteemed naval experts can shed some light on this?

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Re: Astute Class Attack Submarine (SSN) (RN)

Postby Clive F » 06 Sep 2018, 09:44

So was this a "last hurrah" for the ability to do it?

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Re: Astute Class Attack Submarine (SSN) (RN)

Postby Lord Jim » 06 Sep 2018, 18:04

With HMS Trenchant it was probably the RN trying to find some way of maintaining skill when funding has curtailed most opportunities. With the Astute class it was designing a boat for expeditionary warfare as against the RN's historical mission like much or the UK's new or planned equipment. One of the downsides of out convoluted procurement process, twenty years to get the new carriers in the water and even longer to get them operational is simply too long. The time it has taken to get the Astutes into service is just as bad and the gap between them and the Trafalgars was too big. The programme for the next class should already be underway or history will repeat itself.

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Re: Astute Class Attack Submarine (SSN) (RN)

Postby ArmChairCivvy » 06 Sep 2018, 19:14

Lord Jim wrote: The time it has taken to get the Astutes into service is just as bad and the gap between them and the Trafalgars was too big. The programme for the next class should already be underway or history will repeat itself.

-hear-hear
- now, will there be a cross-over from the SSBN design, back to a (slim version) SSN?

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Re: Astute Class Attack Submarine (SSN) (RN)

Postby Gabriele » 20 Sep 2018, 22:06

The Specials want 3 of the latest SEAL Swimmers Delivery Vehicle, the MK11, to replace the old ones. Will go into the Astute class CHALFONT dry deck shelters. http://www.dsca.mil/sites/default/files ... 8-36_0.pdf

Just in time, too, as CHALFONT Sqn is formed up within Fleet Diving Group.
You might also know me as Liger30, from that great forum than MP.net was.

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Re: Astute Class Attack Submarine (SSN) (RN)

Postby SKB » 21 Sep 2018, 13:48


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Re: Astute Class Attack Submarine (SSN) (RN)

Postby Digger22 » 10 Oct 2018, 20:06

Hopefully Audacious should be nearing sea trials soon. Looking at time line of the Astutes from first dive to Leaving for Sea trials, she should leave this month, unless there have been issues.

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Re: Astute Class Attack Submarine (SSN) (RN)

Postby shark bait » 11 Oct 2018, 09:16

Is the airlock module the same as the Americans? And how do divers get from the sub into the airlock?
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Re: Astute Class Attack Submarine (SSN) (RN)

Postby Lord Jim » 11 Oct 2018, 13:41

Through one of the escape chambers, go outside, open Hanger/Air lock, bring out mini sub, get in and off we go.

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Re: Astute Class Attack Submarine (SSN) (RN)

Postby shark bait » 11 Oct 2018, 15:10

so there is no pressurized access to the garage?
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