UK Defence Forum

News, History, Discussions and Debates on UK Defence.

Astute Class Attack Submarine (SSN) (RN)

Contains threads on Royal Navy equipment of the past, present and future.
dmereifield
Senior Member
Posts: 1596
Joined: 03 Aug 2016, 20:29
Location: United Kingdom

Re: Astute Class Attack Submarine (SSN) (RN)

Postby dmereifield » 14 May 2018, 23:05

Is there any update on the progress of HMS Audacious? How much longer until we get back up to 7 SSN?

User avatar
ArmChairCivvy
Senior Member
Posts: 7973
Joined: 05 May 2015, 21:34
Location: United Kingdom

Re: Astute Class Attack Submarine (SSN) (RN)

Postby ArmChairCivvy » 15 May 2018, 01:52

Aren't the T-boat "decommisionings" front-running the commissioning of A-boats by a year?
- which would make it a long time (ref: the question in the post above)

Ron5
Senior Member
Posts: 3251
Joined: 05 May 2015, 21:42
Location: United States of America

Re: Astute Class Attack Submarine (SSN) (RN)

Postby Ron5 » 15 May 2018, 02:07

Repulse wrote:
Clive F wrote:I would have preferred Ajax.


Agincourt could have been for the French, plus we need something to call the eighth...


Alamein for the Germans :-)

benny14
Member
Posts: 556
Joined: 16 Oct 2017, 16:07
Location: United Kingdom

Re: Astute Class Attack Submarine (SSN) (RN)

Postby benny14 » 15 May 2018, 06:57

dmereifield wrote:Is there any update on the progress of HMS Audacious? How much longer until we get back up to 7 SSN?

Sometime this year for Audacious, she is doing trials. Then Trenchant decoms next year and we go back down to 6.

It is going to go up and down each year until 2024 when the 7th Astute is complete. So 6 years until we are fixed at 7 subs again.

Lord Jim
Senior Member
Posts: 1773
Joined: 10 Dec 2015, 02:15
Location: United Kingdom

Re: Astute Class Attack Submarine (SSN) (RN)

Postby Lord Jim » 15 May 2018, 08:17

Still time to order an 8th boat and sort out the long lead items. :D

Pymes75
Member
Posts: 279
Joined: 30 Apr 2015, 22:17
Location: United Kingdom

Re: Astute Class Attack Submarine (SSN) (RN)

Postby Pymes75 » 15 May 2018, 08:54

benny14 wrote:
dmereifield wrote:Is there any update on the progress of HMS Audacious? How much longer until we get back up to 7 SSN?

Sometime this year for Audacious, she is doing trials. Then Trenchant decoms next year and we go back down to 6.

It is going to go up and down each year until 2024 when the 7th Astute is complete. So 6 years until we are fixed at 7 subs again.


Yes, but the RN previously rarely had all boats in operation at any one time as at least one would be in deep maintenance/refuelling. If I understand the current schedule correctly, the T boats are decommissioned as they come up for what would otherwise be a refuelling period, anyway. The crews are then able to rotate through their normal work cycle and the next Astute boat commissions a year later thereby replacing the outgoing T boat.

Rambo
Member
Posts: 95
Joined: 13 May 2015, 21:29

Re: Astute Class Attack Submarine (SSN) (RN)

Postby Rambo » 15 May 2018, 09:12

Audacious is in the water outside the main hall. I think it's been there since autumn last year IIRC. If all is going well I would expect her to sail for sea trails very soon but I haven't seen any progress reports. You would think they would be trying to push the last 3 boats a bit quicker as the Dreadnought program ramps up.

User avatar
shark bait
Senior Member
Posts: 5289
Joined: 05 May 2015, 21:18
Location: Pitcairn Island

Re: Astute Class Attack Submarine (SSN) (RN)

Postby shark bait » 15 May 2018, 10:15

I don't expect they'll be speeding anything up.

Dreadnought 1 should be entering the water around 2026, meaning 4 boats to launch in 8 years, roughly the same pace things have been happening.
@LandSharkUK

Rambo
Member
Posts: 95
Joined: 13 May 2015, 21:29

Re: Astute Class Attack Submarine (SSN) (RN)

Postby Rambo » 15 May 2018, 10:50

I'd say that the Astutes are nearer to every 3 years rather than 2. Certainly the first few were but whether this can be sped up a bit with the later builds as the initial problems are ironed out. I think the last 'Artful' was commissioned in 2016. Audacious will probably leave this year but probably won't be in service until 2019.

User avatar
ArmChairCivvy
Senior Member
Posts: 7973
Joined: 05 May 2015, 21:34
Location: United Kingdom

Re: Astute Class Attack Submarine (SSN) (RN)

Postby ArmChairCivvy » 15 May 2018, 11:16

Rambo wrote:I'd say that the Astutes are nearer to every 3 years rather than 2. Certainly the first few were but whether this can be sped up a bit with the later builds as the initial problems are ironed out.


The initial problems with the Astutes were just the start to the "perfect storm". They gave rise to slowing down the prgrm, then the broad fiscal troubles (mind you, not just in Britain, but bad enough) slowed down the prgrm further. Everything was slowed down, so when the single bottleneck (reactors, including their cores for making old ones run for longer) got swamped with the unplanned recorings (at least one precautionary one was included in the work queue) then you suddenly were facing a cumulative delay, due to this single bottleneck, of 51 months, affecting both prgrms. That's why boat 7, had it not to been funded, would have been standing on those blocks within the constrauction hall for a very long time
- no wonder they pay DG Nuclear £500k/ yr, to sort it all out, as tinkering by the Treasury has only made bad things worse... it's not all in the spreadsheet :D . If that were the case, I could have applied for the post :(

Rambo
Member
Posts: 95
Joined: 13 May 2015, 21:29

Re: Astute Class Attack Submarine (SSN) (RN)

Postby Rambo » 17 May 2018, 07:45

Yesterday I saw a pic of a bow section of one of the Astutes outside Cammell Laird next to the new Polar research ship. It is said to be the 7th boat HMS Agincourt. I wasn't aware until recently that BAE were subcontracting work to other yards especially sections of the boats. But a newsletter for CL confirms that they have been doing work for the last 3 boats for a few years now but it isn't well publicised. This opens up questions about the capacity at Barrow and whether block building could have been more successful / cheaper from the start possibly leading to boats 8 & 9.

User avatar
ArmChairCivvy
Senior Member
Posts: 7973
Joined: 05 May 2015, 21:34
Location: United Kingdom

Re: Astute Class Attack Submarine (SSN) (RN)

Postby ArmChairCivvy » 17 May 2018, 08:07

Don't know, but the expansion of the hall in Barrow (to hold three boats during their various stages of construction/ assembly/ fitting out) may have been an enabling factor for the change (mentioned above)?

User avatar
shark bait
Senior Member
Posts: 5289
Joined: 05 May 2015, 21:18
Location: Pitcairn Island

Re: Astute Class Attack Submarine (SSN) (RN)

Postby shark bait » 17 May 2018, 10:19

have you got a link to the picture?
@LandSharkUK

Rambo
Member
Posts: 95
Joined: 13 May 2015, 21:29

Re: Astute Class Attack Submarine (SSN) (RN)

Postby Rambo » 17 May 2018, 10:34

photo from Frank Brown on Ships of the Mersey FB page
477DC245-6D24-4299-B970-73D0FADFC41E.jpeg
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

jonas
Member
Posts: 715
Joined: 30 Apr 2015, 19:20

Re: Astute Class Attack Submarine (SSN) (RN)

Postby jonas » 20 May 2018, 13:39

No idea if this programme has been shown previously, even so some may have missed it. Tonight 20th at 2100 on BBC4 "How to build a Nuclear Submrine". The construction of the Astute class.

User avatar
SKB
Senior Member
Posts: 4651
Joined: 30 Apr 2015, 18:35
Location: England

Re: Astute Class Attack Submarine (SSN) (RN)

Postby SKB » 20 May 2018, 15:47

jonas wrote:No idea if this programme has been shown previously, even so some may have missed it. Tonight 20th at 2100 on BBC4 "How to build a Nuclear Submrine". The construction of the Astute class.

Its on page 1 of this thread. Still there. ;)

Caribbean
Senior Member
Posts: 1161
Joined: 09 Jan 2016, 19:08
Location: England

Re: Astute Class Attack Submarine (SSN) (RN)

Postby Caribbean » 20 May 2018, 16:48

Nonetheless, thanks for the heads-up, Jonas :thumbup:
The pessimist sees difficulty in every opportunity. The optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty.
Winston Churchill

seaspear
Senior Member
Posts: 1169
Joined: 30 Apr 2015, 20:16
Location: Australia

Re: Astute Class Attack Submarine (SSN) (RN)

Postby seaspear » 25 Jun 2018, 01:29

Is there a successor to the Astute class as in the same progression of the Virginia class to the Columbia class with a quieter electric drive without pump jet propulsion inclusion of x shaped stern for increased manoeuvrability

User avatar
ArmChairCivvy
Senior Member
Posts: 7973
Joined: 05 May 2015, 21:34
Location: United Kingdom

Re: Astute Class Attack Submarine (SSN) (RN)

Postby ArmChairCivvy » 25 Jun 2018, 07:02

seaspear wrote:Is there a successor to the Astute class as in the same progression of the Virginia class to the Columbia class with a quieter electric drive without pump jet propulsion inclusion of x shaped stern for increased manoeuvrability


They just "saved" £2 bn by moving that project out of the 10-yr horizon. One way to create "uncommitted funds" within the given total.
- that was, of course, for design only

Digger22
Member
Posts: 185
Joined: 27 May 2015, 16:47
Location: United Kingdom

Re: Astute Class Attack Submarine (SSN) (RN)

Postby Digger22 » 28 Jun 2018, 12:50

Looking at how long it has taken on average from first dive to sea trials, Audacious may sail October time, 10 months, there or thereabouts.

Clive F
Member
Posts: 109
Joined: 10 Dec 2015, 12:48
Location: United Kingdom

Re: Astute Class Attack Submarine (SSN) (RN)

Postby Clive F » 28 Jun 2018, 13:05

Can anyone tell me, if after the 4 SSBN's have been made they made some more but without the "Trident" stuff how much more expensive would they be than new design SSN's? I know there is a lot of "unknowns". Would they be to big?. Could we fit TLAM's in the back? Better accommodation? SBS berths? Just curious, any opinions?

User avatar
shark bait
Senior Member
Posts: 5289
Joined: 05 May 2015, 21:18
Location: Pitcairn Island

Re: Astute Class Attack Submarine (SSN) (RN)

Postby shark bait » 28 Jun 2018, 13:37

Its certainly possible to build a shortened dreadnought without all the missile silos. Might be a nice idea, recycle the design and save billions in the process!
@LandSharkUK

User avatar
Halidon
Member
Posts: 391
Joined: 12 May 2015, 01:34
Location: United States of America

Re: Astute Class Attack Submarine (SSN) (RN)

Postby Halidon » 28 Jun 2018, 17:05

Clive F wrote:Can anyone tell me, if after the 4 SSBN's have been made they made some more but without the "Trident" stuff how much more expensive would they be than new design SSN's? I know there is a lot of "unknowns". Would they be to big?. Could we fit TLAM's in the back? Better accommodation? SBS berths? Just curious, any opinions?

"How much more expensive than a new design SSN" depends heavily on what the desired specs for the new SSN are. Versus something like a reasonably upgraded repeat of the Astute, there would definitely be a premium to be paid.

I don't think such a sub would be "too big" in operational terms. Over on this side of the big blue ball, the 688/774-size hull is just about maxed out and the next class of subs seems very likely to be larger. Whether a return to Seawolf dimensions or just going ahead and adopting the Columbia class plant and hull cylinders remains to be seen, but a large-diameter SSN future seems inevitable. And yes, embracing it would make it easier to cram additional payloads, from missiles to UUVs to SBS gear, into the envelope. Whether the UK can embrace a large-diameter SSN program and see it through past competing budget priorities, I couldn't say.

User avatar
ArmChairCivvy
Senior Member
Posts: 7973
Joined: 05 May 2015, 21:34
Location: United Kingdom

Re: Astute Class Attack Submarine (SSN) (RN)

Postby ArmChairCivvy » 28 Jun 2018, 17:19

Halidon wrote: [over and beyond] something like a reasonably upgraded repeat of the Astute, there would definitely be a premium to be paid.

- so just pick up the propulsion innovations, and integrate them to the "as such" good hunter-killer design?

Or would doing so force a change of the hull form... making it a new design?

Anyone who has watched the "slow motion" film of what entries are in (within the 10-yr horizon) the EP plan may have noticed the removal (shunting :wtf: ) of the Astute replacement item...

User avatar
Halidon
Member
Posts: 391
Joined: 12 May 2015, 01:34
Location: United States of America

Re: Astute Class Attack Submarine (SSN) (RN)

Postby Halidon » 28 Jun 2018, 18:05

ArmChairCivvy wrote:- so just pick up the propulsion innovations, and integrate them to the "as such" good hunter-killer design?

Or would doing so force a change of the hull form... making it a new design?

My statement was meant to refer to something like the S-boat to T-boat evolution, which I'd loosely describe as improvements to systems and quieting in essentially the same hull. I don't now enough about the hull or the drive to get too wordy on whether it could be lengthened adequately to accommodate the SSBN's electric drive, if so I'd definitely put that as being in the high end of an "upgraded Astute" range rather than a new design. If the pressure hull's diameter need to be increased and/or new reactor is used you're pretty much in a "new design" space.


Return to “Royal Navy”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Poiuytrewq and 15 guests