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Astute Class Attack Submarine (SSN) (RN)

Contains threads on Royal Navy equipment of the past, present and future.
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Halidon
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Re: Astute Class Attack Submarine (SSN) (RN)

Postby Halidon » 18 Apr 2018, 15:56

Gabriele wrote:It might have deliberately dragged Russian attention away from the USS Warner, which fired 6 TLAMs.

My understanding is that a portion of the high-visibility ops in the Eastern Med were a head-fake. The Russians were supposed to fixate on known threats like DDG-75, and possibly the RN SSN, and not notice SSN 785 or the shooters on the Red Sea. Seems to have worked as the Russians never knew 785 was there, from my understanding. So I couldn't say without more information whether she part of a deception/misdirection plan or not, but if she was it worked pretty well.

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Re: Astute Class Attack Submarine (SSN) (RN)

Postby Ron5 » 18 Apr 2018, 17:10

No proof there was any UK SSN in the Med.

Most media reports were based on the lie that they'd heard the PM had directly ordered an Astute there.

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Re: Astute Class Attack Submarine (SSN) (RN)

Postby Lord Jim » 18 Apr 2018, 23:57

One of the reasons we rarely acknowledge where our SSNs are. It also allows us to get away with having fewer than we need, simply dropping the hint that one "Might" be somewhere can sometimes be all that is needed.

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Re: Astute Class Attack Submarine (SSN) (RN)

Postby abc123 » 24 Apr 2018, 21:18

What do you make of this?

SUBMARINE DELIVERY AGENCY

https://navaltoday.com/2018/04/24/uk-of ... ry-agency/
Fortune favors brave sir, said Carrot cheerfully.
What's her position about heavily armed, well prepared and overmanned armies?
Oh, noone's ever heard of Fortune favoring them, sir.
According to General Tacticus, it's because they favor themselves…

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Re: Astute Class Attack Submarine (SSN) (RN)

Postby Aethulwulf » 14 May 2018, 00:40

Defence secretary gives go-ahead for £2.5bn spend on submarines...

...Gavin Williamson will confirm the Ministry of Defence has signed a £1.6bn contract with BAE Systems to build the seventh and last of the Astute hunter-killer submarines, to be named Agincourt.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/may/14/defence-secretary-gives-go-ahead-for-25bn-spend-on-submarines

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/6279575/submarine-hms-agincourt-go-ahead/

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Re: Astute Class Attack Submarine (SSN) (RN)

Postby Ron5 » 14 May 2018, 01:17

Good name for Brexit :D

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Re: Astute Class Attack Submarine (SSN) (RN)

Postby ArmChairCivvy » 14 May 2018, 01:57

Aethulwulf wrote:https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/may/14/defence-secretary-gives-go-ahead-for-25bn-spend-on-submarines


The Guardian seems to have forgotten about the £10bn contingency:
"The UK’s parliamentary spending watchdog, the public accounts committee, on Friday warned of a £21bn shortfall: in other words, the Ministry of Defence does not have enough money to buy all the equipment it says it needs. It singled out for criticism spending on the four Dreadnoughts."

The ring fencing comment [ that follows the above quote] on finance is correct for the Dreadnoughts but not for the Astutes.

The relevant DG has been, though, tasked with a cost reduction plan (to come up with one, together with the industry), as in:
Who is responsible? [from NAO/ MoD "facts" publication]
the ‘Top Level Budgets’ will deliver the right mix of staff across the whole force.
These comprise the Head Office and Corporate Services; the four Commands;
Defence Infrastructure Organisation; and DG Nuclear.
- there has only been a DG Nuclear in post for a year, thereby making it "independently acting"
- whereas the blundering DIO has been reduced to a delivery agency and the Heads of Commands now own the budget as for the accommodation aspects (a recent change, and for a good reason, too)

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Re: Astute Class Attack Submarine (SSN) (RN)

Postby Timmymagic » 14 May 2018, 09:28

Ron5 wrote:Good name for Brexit


For me the Astutes have by the far the best names in the RN.

Looks like we've got a decent defence secretary by all accounts as well....about time too. He seems to have the measure of the Treasury to date as well. I suspect they fear him as he has the ear of the PM and is being talked about, seriously, as a successor to May as PM.

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Re: Astute Class Attack Submarine (SSN) (RN)

Postby ArmChairCivvy » 14 May 2018, 09:55

Timmymagic wrote: He seems to have the measure of the Treasury to date as well. I suspect they fear him as he has the ear of the PM


In the light that the nuclear contingency (other than for Dreadnoughts) had already been eaten up, prior to the Agincourt announcement, all the way to 2020/21, there seems to be something to that.
- figure 1 on p.11 here https://www.nao.org.uk/wp-content/uploa ... o-2027.pdf

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Re: Astute Class Attack Submarine (SSN) (RN)

Postby Clive F » 14 May 2018, 10:43

I would have preferred Ajax. Agincourt is backward look and a land battle. Just my opinion.

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Re: Astute Class Attack Submarine (SSN) (RN)

Postby Pymes75 » 14 May 2018, 11:11

Timmymagic wrote:For me the Astutes have by the far the best names in the RN.


I dunno, the V boats have good names too... I like the idea of the RN's SSBNs being at the Vanguard, remaining ever Vigilant, dealing Vengeance and ensuring we are Victorious! :angel:

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Re: Astute Class Attack Submarine (SSN) (RN)

Postby Poiuytrewq » 14 May 2018, 11:41

Could it be that there has been a battle on the scale of Agincourt between Mr Hammond and Mr Williamson to actually get the 7th Astute built?

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Re: Astute Class Attack Submarine (SSN) (RN)

Postby ArmChairCivvy » 14 May 2018, 11:47

More likely we just need to secure (with the SSNs) that we (again) have a weapon (SSBNs) that can overarch the battlefield,and again bring the victory... at the very least, proper vengeance

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Re: Astute Class Attack Submarine (SSN) (RN)

Postby RetroSicotte » 14 May 2018, 11:54

Fantastic name choice. Lot of great history with the title. It's been:

2 Ships of the Line
1 Frigate
1 Battleship (and intended to be a second)
1 Destroyer
And now 1 SSN.

Good lineage. I'm always down with getting those battleship names back on important vessels.

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Re: Astute Class Attack Submarine (SSN) (RN)

Postby SKB » 14 May 2018, 12:23




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Re: Astute Class Attack Submarine (SSN) (RN)

Postby SKB » 14 May 2018, 12:47

BAE article, with nice timelapse video of Barrow-In-Furness' new Central Yard facility being built.
https://www.baesystems.com/en/article/m ... programmes

MoD: https://www.gov.uk/government/news/defe ... submarines

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Re: Astute Class Attack Submarine (SSN) (RN)

Postby Ron5 » 14 May 2018, 16:04

SKB wrote:BAE article, with nice timelapse video of Barrow-In-Furness' new Central Yard facility being built.
https://www.baesystems.com/en/article/m ... programmes

MoD: https://www.gov.uk/government/news/defe ... submarines


Would make a nice frigate factory :-(

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Re: Astute Class Attack Submarine (SSN) (RN)

Postby Caribbean » 14 May 2018, 16:51

Was the current assembly building too small for the Dreadnoughts? This one looks big enough to hold two Dreadnoughts at the same time, so have we just radically improved the physical capacity at Barrow? Possibly removed a future production bottleneck, maybe?

Might make a good frigate factory, but I'm thinking **cough** Astute 8 **cough** SSKs **cough** **cough**

Sorry, bad cold, you must have misheard me :D
The pessimist sees difficulty in every opportunity. The optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty.
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Re: Astute Class Attack Submarine (SSN) (RN)

Postby SKB » 14 May 2018, 17:34

The new building in the centre of the yard is for building and testing sections of submarines. It's not near water. The completed sections then get moved to the much larger Devonshire Dock Hall for final assembly.

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Re: Astute Class Attack Submarine (SSN) (RN)

Postby Timmymagic » 14 May 2018, 17:34

Caribbean wrote:Was the current assembly building too small for the Dreadnoughts? This one looks big enough to hold two Dreadnoughts at the same time, so have we just radically improved the physical capacity at Barrow? Possibly removed a future production bottleneck, maybe?


This isn't the assembly building. The assembly building (Devonshire Dock Hall) has also received an extension. You wouldn't be able to get a boat into the water from this facility. The street view below should illustrate why. The new building is on the left (can't miss it) with the dock hall in front.

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@54.10818 ... 312!8i6656

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Re: Astute Class Attack Submarine (SSN) (RN)

Postby Timmymagic » 14 May 2018, 17:37

SKB wrote:The sections then get moved to the much larger Devonshire Dock Hall for final assembly.


It might be shorter, but it's almost as tall and far wider than the DDH.

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Re: Astute Class Attack Submarine (SSN) (RN)

Postby SKB » 14 May 2018, 17:46

A BAE Barrow-in-Furness redevelopment video from 2014:



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Re: Astute Class Attack Submarine (SSN) (RN)

Postby serge750 » 14 May 2018, 17:50

Pymes75 wrote:
Timmymagic wrote:For me the Astutes have by the far the best names in the RN.


I dunno, the V boats have good names too... I like the idea of the RN's SSBNs being at the Vanguard, remaining ever Vigilant, dealing Vengeance and ensuring we are Victorious! :angel:


I particularly love The name VENGENCE, says it all really.... :thumbup:

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Re: Astute Class Attack Submarine (SSN) (RN)

Postby Caribbean » 14 May 2018, 18:31

Thanks for the info. So, the ability to build sections elsewhere, before moving them into final assembly should improve overall capacity. It's also quite a large building. Should be able to built quite a number of sections in parallel in there. Assuming the workforce is available to exploit it, that is. However I would say that is a better problem to have than not having the physical space to build more. People can be trained
The pessimist sees difficulty in every opportunity. The optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty.
Winston Churchill

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Re: Astute Class Attack Submarine (SSN) (RN)

Postby Repulse » 14 May 2018, 21:37

Clive F wrote:I would have preferred Ajax.


Agincourt could have been for the French, plus we need something to call the eighth...
"For get this quite clear, every time we have to decide between Europe and the open sea, it is always the open sea we shall choose." - Winston Churchill


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