Astute Class Attack Submarine (SSN) (RN)
Re: Astute Class Attack Submarine (SSN) (RN)
Deal with Japan/France/Germany/Sweden. We buy 3 SSK, you buy some of our kit?
- shark bait
- Senior Member
- Posts: 6427
- Joined: 05 May 2015, 21:18
Re: Astute Class Attack Submarine (SSN) (RN)
Germany cant build frigates for shit, maybe we can do swapsies
@LandSharkUK
- Tempest414
- Senior Member
- Posts: 5601
- Joined: 04 Jan 2018, 23:39
Re: Astute Class Attack Submarine (SSN) (RN)
if the UK were to buy say 4 SSK would we be able to extend the Astute class life though reduced use and if so by how long
-
- Donator
- Posts: 3235
- Joined: 07 May 2015, 23:57
Re: Astute Class Attack Submarine (SSN) (RN)
Is there no way with investment to increase over all national capacity in building SSNs over the next 20 years odd ??[/quote]
One of the major constraints is the reactor production time. You could increase production capacity, but unless you could guarantee holding the fleet at a certain level it may not be worth it.
One of the major constraints is the reactor production time. You could increase production capacity, but unless you could guarantee holding the fleet at a certain level it may not be worth it.
Re: Astute Class Attack Submarine (SSN) (RN)
The design work and the knowledge of how to build them is already there, aside from a number of updates that'd no doubt be installed. This would llikely allow them to be in the water sooner compared to the current Astutes, and make it easier to squeeze a couple of builds in around the SSBN build schedule. I'm not saying it'd work perfectly but if we want to keep to just nuclear boats it would seem to be a good option.shark bait wrote:How?
Can't do anything without impacting dreadnought, which is an immovable object.
Of course if the RN goes for SSKs (which personally I think they should) it'd be another story.
- ArmChairCivvy
- Senior Member
- Posts: 16312
- Joined: 05 May 2015, 21:34
Re: Astute Class Attack Submarine (SSN) (RN)
On the money... and I'd wager (somebody else's) salary; not mine, on itKyleG wrote: allow them to be in the water sooner compared to the current Astutes, and make it easier to squeeze a couple of builds in around the SSBN build schedule
Ever-lasting truths: Multi-year budgets/ planning by necessity have to address the painful questions; more often than not the Either-Or prevails over Both-And.
If everyone is thinking the same, then someone is not thinking (attributed to Patton)
If everyone is thinking the same, then someone is not thinking (attributed to Patton)
Re: Astute Class Attack Submarine (SSN) (RN)
Yeah, you could sell them your faulty destroyers for their faulty frigates...shark bait wrote:Germany cant build frigates for shit, maybe we can do swapsies
Fortune favors brave sir, said Carrot cheerfully.
What's her position about heavily armed, well prepared and overmanned armies?
Oh, noone's ever heard of Fortune favoring them, sir.
According to General Tacticus, it's because they favor themselves…
What's her position about heavily armed, well prepared and overmanned armies?
Oh, noone's ever heard of Fortune favoring them, sir.
According to General Tacticus, it's because they favor themselves…
Re: Astute Class Attack Submarine (SSN) (RN)
Comparing the Type 45, which has manageable engine issues to a completely broken class of frigates is a terrible comparison.abc123 wrote:Yeah, you could sell them your faulty destroyers for their faulty frigates...
- ArmChairCivvy
- Senior Member
- Posts: 16312
- Joined: 05 May 2015, 21:34
Re: Astute Class Attack Submarine (SSN) (RN)
As abc has adopted the position of a broker, what can he deliver into the deal, for any mismatch ( or as "loose change")?benny14 wrote:Comparing the Type 45, which has manageable engine issues to a completely broken class of frigates is a terrible comparison.abc123 wrote:Yeah, you could sell them your faulty destroyers for their faulty frigates...
- I am sure it is something that says to the defence industries of the UK and Germany "eat my dust "?
Ever-lasting truths: Multi-year budgets/ planning by necessity have to address the painful questions; more often than not the Either-Or prevails over Both-And.
If everyone is thinking the same, then someone is not thinking (attributed to Patton)
If everyone is thinking the same, then someone is not thinking (attributed to Patton)
Re: Astute Class Attack Submarine (SSN) (RN)
They give us the Frigates for free, we melt them down and turn them in to Type 31s for a small fee.ArmChairCivvy wrote: As abc has adopted the position of a broker, what can he deliver into the deal, for any mismatch ( or as "loose change")
- ArmChairCivvy
- Senior Member
- Posts: 16312
- Joined: 05 May 2015, 21:34
Re: Astute Class Attack Submarine (SSN) (RN)
And having created the gap in the market, BAE then partners with a "local" yard to build T26s (for them) as replacements
The profits from this operation are used to fill up the Boat7 funding gap...
The profits from this operation are used to fill up the Boat7 funding gap...
Ever-lasting truths: Multi-year budgets/ planning by necessity have to address the painful questions; more often than not the Either-Or prevails over Both-And.
If everyone is thinking the same, then someone is not thinking (attributed to Patton)
If everyone is thinking the same, then someone is not thinking (attributed to Patton)
Re: Astute Class Attack Submarine (SSN) (RN)
I'm sure that they will also find a way to manage their shortcomings.benny14 wrote:Comparing the Type 45, which has manageable engine issues to a completely broken class of frigates is a terrible comparison.abc123 wrote:Yeah, you could sell them your faulty destroyers for their faulty frigates...
Fortune favors brave sir, said Carrot cheerfully.
What's her position about heavily armed, well prepared and overmanned armies?
Oh, noone's ever heard of Fortune favoring them, sir.
According to General Tacticus, it's because they favor themselves…
What's her position about heavily armed, well prepared and overmanned armies?
Oh, noone's ever heard of Fortune favoring them, sir.
According to General Tacticus, it's because they favor themselves…
Re: Astute Class Attack Submarine (SSN) (RN)
ArmChairCivvy wrote:As abc has adopted the position of a broker, what can he deliver into the deal, for any mismatch ( or as "loose change")?benny14 wrote:Comparing the Type 45, which has manageable engine issues to a completely broken class of frigates is a terrible comparison.abc123 wrote:Yeah, you could sell them your faulty destroyers for their faulty frigates...
- I am sure it is something that says to the defence industries of the UK and Germany "eat my dust "?
Truth hurts, eh?
Maybe my contribution is a dash of common sense and decency- not to mock others, when you have a lot of your own problems.
Fortune favors brave sir, said Carrot cheerfully.
What's her position about heavily armed, well prepared and overmanned armies?
Oh, noone's ever heard of Fortune favoring them, sir.
According to General Tacticus, it's because they favor themselves…
What's her position about heavily armed, well prepared and overmanned armies?
Oh, noone's ever heard of Fortune favoring them, sir.
According to General Tacticus, it's because they favor themselves…
Re: Astute Class Attack Submarine (SSN) (RN)
The only thing that hurt was your terrible comparison . People always like to bring up the issues with the RN, and then act like everyone elses Navy is perfect. I dont see a problem with pointing out how bad another countries ship building program is compared to ours.abc123 wrote: Truth hurts, eh?
Maybe my contribution is a dash of common sense and decency- not to mock others, when you have a lot of your own problems.
Re: Astute Class Attack Submarine (SSN) (RN)
abc123 is very careful to keep his country secret. No doubt they have a perfect Navy (eyes roll).
- ArmChairCivvy
- Senior Member
- Posts: 16312
- Joined: 05 May 2015, 21:34
Re: Astute Class Attack Submarine (SSN) (RN)
You wouldn't mean that huffing and puffing carrier, by any chance? The one that has been relegated to training use, just to keep the skills alive for the dream project of a replacement to be started - in 10 or 20 years' time.Ron5 wrote:No doubt they have a perfect Navy (eyes roll).
Ever-lasting truths: Multi-year budgets/ planning by necessity have to address the painful questions; more often than not the Either-Or prevails over Both-And.
If everyone is thinking the same, then someone is not thinking (attributed to Patton)
If everyone is thinking the same, then someone is not thinking (attributed to Patton)
Re: Astute Class Attack Submarine (SSN) (RN)
No, in fact just the opposite. But, you should hear me ranting about them, in fact, I'm so depressed that I'm way beyond rant ( it's hopeless ).Ron5 wrote:abc123 is very careful to keep his country secret. No doubt they have a perfect Navy (eyes roll).
But, soon the RN will also be beyond repair and need to rant, so that's a bit of relief to me.
Fortune favors brave sir, said Carrot cheerfully.
What's her position about heavily armed, well prepared and overmanned armies?
Oh, noone's ever heard of Fortune favoring them, sir.
According to General Tacticus, it's because they favor themselves…
What's her position about heavily armed, well prepared and overmanned armies?
Oh, noone's ever heard of Fortune favoring them, sir.
According to General Tacticus, it's because they favor themselves…
Re: Astute Class Attack Submarine (SSN) (RN)
a) I'm not Russian nor from Russia ( as I have said 100x over and over again ), so I really don't care about KuznetsovArmChairCivvy wrote:You wouldn't mean that huffing and puffing carrier, by any chance? The one that has been relegated to training use, just to keep the skills alive for the dream project of a replacement to be started - in 10 or 20 years' time.Ron5 wrote:No doubt they have a perfect Navy (eyes roll).
b) the fact that Russia has 1 training carrier is not good OFC, but Russia is land power, she can live even without carriers. Current sad state of the RN, on the other hand, is very worryng ( or should be ) for traditionally maritime power like the UK.
Fortune favors brave sir, said Carrot cheerfully.
What's her position about heavily armed, well prepared and overmanned armies?
Oh, noone's ever heard of Fortune favoring them, sir.
According to General Tacticus, it's because they favor themselves…
What's her position about heavily armed, well prepared and overmanned armies?
Oh, noone's ever heard of Fortune favoring them, sir.
According to General Tacticus, it's because they favor themselves…
Re: Astute Class Attack Submarine (SSN) (RN)
Terrible is to say things like: "Germany can't build frigates for shit". By that standard, I could say that say UK can't build destroyers for shit. Just because there are problems with one class of destroyers. Never mind all other previous classes of frigates/destroyers built well, just one faulty class is enough to say that.benny14 wrote:The only thing that hurt was your terrible comparison .abc123 wrote: Truth hurts, eh?
Maybe my contribution is a dash of common sense and decency- not to mock others, when you have a lot of your own problems.
Fortune favors brave sir, said Carrot cheerfully.
What's her position about heavily armed, well prepared and overmanned armies?
Oh, noone's ever heard of Fortune favoring them, sir.
According to General Tacticus, it's because they favor themselves…
What's her position about heavily armed, well prepared and overmanned armies?
Oh, noone's ever heard of Fortune favoring them, sir.
According to General Tacticus, it's because they favor themselves…
Re: Astute Class Attack Submarine (SSN) (RN)
Thats what a Russian would say.abc123 wrote:a) I'm not Russian nor from Russia
Re: Astute Class Attack Submarine (SSN) (RN)
gotta say both german and russian subs are pretty good. As for these faults, or deficiencies the real problem more usually a lack of understanding, experience, openness and budget to develop and learn from the mistakes.
i'd say that is one of the challenges with the astute, the problems are secret. this could be for a number of reasons, some entirely valid but it will still be better to design and build in an open fashion if you want progress.
are we not too negative? i think our design and build processes being so slow must make things hard? technology moves on, so is the astute's computer operating system, or the design program the same as used in astute 1 as astute 3? it can't be great using different versions or old versions
i'd say that is one of the challenges with the astute, the problems are secret. this could be for a number of reasons, some entirely valid but it will still be better to design and build in an open fashion if you want progress.
are we not too negative? i think our design and build processes being so slow must make things hard? technology moves on, so is the astute's computer operating system, or the design program the same as used in astute 1 as astute 3? it can't be great using different versions or old versions
Re: Astute Class Attack Submarine (SSN) (RN)
Regarding SSNs and SSBNs one thing we must avoid is a large gaps in production, and the same goes for surface vessels. If it means we stick to single designs and adapt them no problem. I would like to see the Dreadnoughts alternate with Astute Mk2s in the production schedule and try to get 2 or 3 extra hulls into service. The SSK idea is also a good one, especially if fitted with AIP or the Battery idea Japan is pursuing. This would allow them to carry out many of the roles currently carried out by the SSNs. All comes down to money though, as it always does, and the Navy is already getting a significant number of new toys over the next couple of decades.
Re: Astute Class Attack Submarine (SSN) (RN)
Lord Jim's sentiment is spot on. Simply we do need to spend more on defence though
Re: Astute Class Attack Submarine (SSN) (RN)
Agree the RN is getting “new toys”, but what will have more strategic impact for the U.K., when combined with other NATO allies - a light Battlegroup stationed in Poland or additional SSNs to secure the Artic / North Atlantic?
”We have no eternal allies, and we have no perpetual enemies. Our interests are eternal and perpetual, and those interests it is our duty to follow." - Lord Palmerston
Re: Astute Class Attack Submarine (SSN) (RN)
I agree to a certain extent, but the Army for example is so out of whack that it need serious investment and a re think on existing programmes in order to get in any sort of shape to be relevant in the 21st century. Money is the key to everything we discuss here regarding what needs to be done, and hopefully the ongoing review will decide logical priorities rather than simply listing the Wish Lists of the three services and additional money will be forthcoming to realise them rather than leave them on the to do list. The Astute, has the potential to be one of if not the best SSN in service anywhere and an improved version incorporating the lessons learned would make it more so. We have to avoid the gap in the production of nuclear boats to avoid the mess we got into with the Astute programme where we had to go the Americans for help.