UK Defence Forum

HMS Dragon came home today

(ships, planes and gaming) 15th June 2018

I read in the media today that the first T-45 won't go into refit to solve the engine issues until 2020 and it will take 8 months per ship. Is this what other people have heard?

Lord Jim wrote:I read in the media today that the first T-45 won't go into refit to solve the engine issues until 2020 and it will take 8 months per ship. Is this what other people have heard?

The first Type 45 to be updated by 2021 - the details are below:

http://www.defense-aerospace.com/articl ... oyers.html

Given how little time the T-45s are spending at sea or at least were, I would have thought the programme would be classed as URGENT.

I'm a bit confused (nothing new there!), I thought that the programme was already underway.

Lord Jim wrote:Given how little time the T-45s are spending at sea or at least were, I would have thought the programme would be classed as URGENT.

I'm sure the matter is taken seriously, though you have to appreciate there has been a lot of work and improvements since the first signs of trouble. They have built an onshore testing site to evaluate the problem properly, and combined with information from deployments, the temperature issues and how this affects performance is well known. Operationally they understand well the point at which the power system will fail and have a workaround to avoid this happening. They simply bypass the intercooler-recuperator when the system gets to a certain temperature and the thing keeps running - without the efficiency benefit however. The last time there was a power system breakdown was many years ago.

There's a design and product procurement phase to get through before they can perform any implementation, as well as wait for an appropriate slot in the schedule - should be in 2020.

matt00773 wrote:wait for an appropriate slot in the schedule - should be in 2020.

So 1 or 2 done before the first T-31 comes around and T-23s start to drop like flies


HMS Argyll
2023
...through to
HMS St Albans
2035

One at the time being the max (not because of berths, but) simply because (6-1)/3 = 1.67 operationally available (on avg)

Two things have been reported as on going...

1. Rolls Royce has modified the faulty recuperator. It was reported last year that it would undergo operational testing before being rolled out across the fleet. Installation of the modifications can be carried out in four weeks, within the warships normal maintenance period.

2. The second is the longer-term effort to replace the existing diesels with more powerful generators, known as the power improvement plan. This plan has been established with the objective of changing the original IEP architecture by installing upgraded diesel generators to increase the electrical generation capacity such that the system can deliver cruise speeds (covering the major part of the Type 45 operating profile) on diesels alone. The WR-21 GTAs will remain to provide boost power as necessary, but will be used much less often.The installation and replacement of equipment is planned to take place at Cammell Laird’s shipyard, before a series of harbour and sea trials. The first ship is due start this upgrade/refit in 2019, with the ship due to be handed back in 2021. The rest will follow on, at a more rapid pace so that all 6 should be upgraded by the mid-2020's.

Aethulwulf wrote:Two things have been reported as on going...

1. Rolls Royce has modified the faulty recuperator. It was reported last year that it would undergo operational testing before being rolled out across the fleet. Installation of the modifications can be carried out in four weeks, within the warships normal maintenance period.

2. The second is the longer-term effort to replace the existing diesels with more powerful generators, known as the power improvement plan. This plan has been established with the objective of changing the original IEP architecture by installing upgraded diesel generators to increase the electrical generation capacity such that the system can deliver cruise speeds (covering the major part of the Type 45 operating profile) on diesels alone. The WR-21 GTAs will remain to provide boost power as necessary, but will be used much less often.The installation and replacement of equipment is planned to take place at Cammell Laird’s shipyard, before a series of harbour and sea trials. The first ship is due start this upgrade/refit in 2019, with the ship due to be handed back in 2021. The rest will follow on, at a more rapid pace so that all 6 should be upgraded by the mid-2020's.

Indeed, one of the Type 45s has already had the redesigned intercooler-recuperator installed and is currently operational. Being able to use diesels only in cruise mode is a good thing I think as it gives more operational options for the power system. I wonder if part of the design around the diesel replacement will include positioning and noise dampening techniques to reduce signature? Would make it very powerful IEP power solution if this is the case.

With the revised architecture of the IEP, how will it impact the potential range, endurance and optimum cruise speed of the T45s?

[quote="SKB"]HMS Dragon came home today

(ships, planes and gaming) 15th June 2018[/quote

Is this one of our T45's that are spending 'so little time at sea' ?

Yes but look, its being brought back by a tug (said the Daily Mail reporter)

Old RN wrote:With the revised architecture of the IEP, how will it impact the potential range, endurance and optimum cruise speed of the T45s?

Up, same, same.

Little J wrote:Yes but look, its being brought back by a tug (said the Daily Mail reporter)

"covered in graffiti"

The RNs going to have to be careful with ships names if they are going to start painting logos on the ships!

Lord Jim wrote:The RNs going to have to be careful with ships names if they are going to start painting logos on the ships!

So a return of the Gay class may not be a good plan? :p

Lord Jim wrote:The RNs going to have to be careful with ships names if they are going to start painting logos on the ships!

Drat - that's HMS Fanny off the list then!

Four of the six ships were at sea last week including Duncan which is the Med for two years.

Caribbean wrote:

Lord Jim wrote:The RNs going to have to be careful with ships names if they are going to start painting logos on the ships!

Drat - that's HMS Fanny off the list then!

Shame, we could have made some inroads with POTUS as we look to name the second Dreadnought Class:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMS_Trump_(P333)

Has any mention been made of a proper mid-life extension for the T45s? I notice the potential for BMD capability was raised by the Defence Select Committee. Surely having them all in drydock would be a good time to install future capabilities?

Jensy

RetroSicotte wrote:

Lord Jim wrote:The RNs going to have to be careful with ships names if they are going to start painting logos on the ships!

So a return of the Gay class may not be a good plan? :p

Help recruiting tho'

HMS Growler, HMS Oyster, HMS P'lHange?

(ships, planes and gaming) 22nd June 2018



So! You're the mysterious "HMS Daring" on MarineTraffic AIS ?!

PR from Prodrive Composites re an UOR for HMS Diamond, Dragon & Duncan.

Optimised the positioning of the ship’s close defence ballistic protection structures for its on-deck close defence mounting platform with upgraded protective mounting incorporated in a bespoke composite design to withstand aggressive environments and sea conditions (sea state code level 6 with a wave height of up to six metres) and to fit within existing space.

Guessing the mounting for the Phalanx that had been found wanting?

It's the shield for the GPMGs and Miniguns.

I congratulate Prodrive on its success. When I worked there Prodrive Engineering was spread a bit thin, but the mainstream manufacturers are prepared to use Williams, Maclaren and Prodrive and it benefits us all. Of course bespoke rapid prototyping engineered products are very different to mass produced volume manufacture.