In the US though the cost guard is a militarised force the same to an existent would be needed here as well if they were to take over the current EEZ role.
I’m all for making the whole thing more streamlined but wouldn’t it be better to combine all the other agencies but keep the OPVs in the RN that way you don’t need a separate militarised force out side the RN
Re: River Class (OPV) (RN)
Posted: 22 May 2020, 21:24
by shark bait
In Germany the coastguard is "a civilian law enforcement organisation whose primary missions are border protection, maritime environmental protection, shipping safety, fishery protection and customs enforcement".
That's why I specifically mentioned the Germans, there's no need for a military coastguard. Keep the military for the higher value roles.
Re: River Class (OPV) (RN)
Posted: 22 May 2020, 21:29
by Caribbean
RichardIC wrote:It's a law enforcement matter. It doesn't need military involvement.
Fishery Protection has been a military task for at least the last 350 years, though the origins go back to Edward IV in the late 1400's. Sometimes there are things that only naval officers have the legal authority to do. Civilians have limited authority outside of territorial waters.
Re: River Class (OPV) (RN)
Posted: 22 May 2020, 21:38
by Jake1992
shark bait wrote:In Germany the coastguard is "a civilian law enforcement organisation whose primary missions are border protection, maritime environmental protection, shipping safety, fishery protection and customs enforcement".
That's why I specifically mentioned the Germans, there's no need for a military coastguard. Keep the military for the higher value roles.
That maybe so but are you really going to have unarmed civilian vessels doing the FRE role ?
Like I said I’m all for streamlining things but certain roles need a militarised force to undertake them, if you took say the current what 4 odd agencies and reduced then to 2 a civilian one ( UKBF, Fisheries abd others ) and the RN OPVs then you have stream lined.
Re: River Class (OPV) (RN)
Posted: 22 May 2020, 22:11
by RichardIC
Scimitar54 wrote:If you really believe that, then by the same definition, why have QRA for incursions into UK air space, or an Army to defend against invasion. A raid on UK fish stocks IS an attack on the assets of this country and individuals who commit such offences (with or without political support from a foreign power) are highly likely to be committing other offences as well. Or perhaps you think that unarmed policemen still deter armed robbers as well. Get real!
Would have to agree - seems a complete waste given that for a small amount we could have a flexible platform that would last 10 years (and help fill the inevitable gaps due to funding). The 5 B2s will be forward deployed to cover the drop in GP Frigates, having an OPV capable of acting as a lily pad for a ASW Merlin in UK and Atlantic waters has great value.
Re: River Class (OPV) (RN)
Posted: 23 May 2020, 10:24
by Tempest414
As I have said in the past Clyde should have been made the Nav training ship giving the navy a lot of training option including small deck training for helicopters and the 3 B1's left to get on with EEZ work
Re: River Class (OPV) (RN)
Posted: 23 May 2020, 10:42
by ArmChairCivvy
While seconding the post by Tempest above,
Repulse wrote: as a lily pad for a ASW Merlin in UK and Atlantic waters has great value.
I agree with this one, too, though surely there is more value in the SAR role, considering how far out the UK obligation zone stretches out in the Atlantic
- not sure if the MPAs can drop life rafts, or does that job still need a Herc to be called out?
Re: River Class (OPV) (RN)
Posted: 28 May 2020, 08:51
by donald_of_tokyo
From ""
HMS Tamar with Wildcat landing (and re-fueling). Beautiful shot!
Re: River Class (OPV) (RN)
Posted: 28 May 2020, 08:59
by Scimitar54
The Superstructure plating looks AWFULLY thin!
Re: River Class (OPV) (RN)
Posted: 28 May 2020, 11:53
by RAF>FAN
Looks like canvas. Like an old "Stringbag" plane.
Re: River Class (OPV) (RN)
Posted: 28 May 2020, 11:54
by serge750
Definatly would not want to see that in your new car
Re: River Class (OPV) (RN)
Posted: 28 May 2020, 12:09
by clivestonehouse1
The thinner plating was a direct result of experiences from the Falklands war.
It was found that bombs and missiles caused far less damage if they just punched through (of course unless they hit critical areas) rather than detonating against thicker plates.
HMS Plymouth took four bomb strikes which failed to detonate and after rapid repairs was operational again after only six days.
Her rapid turnaround was primarily due to the bombs hitting thinner deck areas.
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Re: River Class (OPV) (RN)
Posted: 28 May 2020, 12:17
by serge750
Did not know that, thanks for the imformation
Re: River Class (OPV) (RN)
Posted: 28 May 2020, 14:26
by dmereifield
So thinner seems to mean less damage to the hull, but what about the crew?
Re: River Class (OPV) (RN)
Posted: 28 May 2020, 15:33
by jimthelad
Doesnt matter either way if it detonates. The thermobaric effect would be catastrophic unless you have Krupps cemented steel. Even then most modern ASM have a binary shaped charge.
Re: River Class (OPV) (RN)
Posted: 28 May 2020, 15:46
by donald_of_tokyo
Thicker plates is good for ballistic protection, which is the rationale of Dutch Holland-class OPV using thicker steel for its hull. The reason why they are so heavy is partly because of this.
But, as no export nor follow on design with similar concept is there, I suppose drawback was non-negligible = need more fuel to steam.
They have really really nice photos there. Great work. To name a few ...
It is worth seeing the original large scale images. Followings are all "small" version.
Re: River Class (OPV) (RN)
Posted: 04 Jun 2020, 10:42
by Repulse
Wonder if we will get any news on where she’ll be operating...
Re: River Class (OPV) (RN)
Posted: 04 Jun 2020, 13:56
by SKB
(Forces TV) 9th June 2020
The Royal Navy's newest and 'greenest' ship has been commissioned into the fleet. HMS Tamar, a Batch-2 River-class offshore patrol vessel (OPV), raised the White Ensign from her deck for the first time, on the river in south-west England that shares her name. Over the past few weeks, the ship has been carrying out acceptance trials around Plymouth Sound and the south-west sea training areas. The Navy said HMS Tamar is also the service's greenest ship, due to catalytic converters which reduce nitrogen-based emissions from her engine exhausts by up to 95%.
Re: River Class (OPV) (RN)
Posted: 10 Jun 2020, 17:16
by donald_of_tokyo
HMS Medway is carrying 7m-class rubber boat on top of her starboard waist's 6m-ISO container.
HMS Forth was (still is?) carrying rigid-radar (of RM) on her port waist, at Falkland island.
Surely, both are not limited to their own 2 RHIBs. I CAN imagine they carrying Altas electric ARCIMS USVs in future?
Re: River Class (OPV) (RN)
Posted: 10 Jun 2020, 17:21
by Scimitar54
What are the odds on China Extending an invitation for a courtesy visit to Hong Kong by HMS Tamar? About 100/1 against, I should say!
Re: River Class (OPV) (RN)
Posted: 10 Jun 2020, 17:27
by ArmChairCivvy
donald_of_tokyo wrote:
Surely, both are not limited to their own 2 RHIBs.
The crane, as far as weight is concerned, could lift an LCVP. Not sure if the lifting arm is long enough to handle such an awkward shape smoothly into the water?
