UK Defence Forum

HMS Trent is "gearing up to operate out of Gibraltar this autumn..."

https://www.royalnavy.mod.uk/news-and-l ... e-by-drone

to operate out of Gibraltar
... or in (the territorial waters of) Gib?

Who knows, but it mentions rotating crews and compaeisons to the forward deployed T23 and the FI B2, so sounds like it'll be forward based there

Suppose rn could keep HMS Clyde for a knock down price from bae now not going to Brazil if they want another ship somewhere I quess

inch wrote:Suppose rn could keep HMS Clyde for a knock down price from bae

Was it not included in the deal when the B1s (it being a B1.5) were bought outright as opposed to continuing with the lease deal?
- the logic of that move beat me as it happened at about the time when getting B2s under TOBA became clear (or a "necessity")

HMS Clyde still on a lease due to expire I believe in March. Keeping it for UK Fisheries/EEZ duties IMO is a no brainier given the likely post Brexit turbulence over the next few years.

Thanks, and with a helo deck it would be (on the side) more of a SAR asset than the retained B1s.

Not sure. River B1 OPV needs a crew of 45, of which 30 is onboard. To get it, at least one MCMV must go into extended readiness, I think.

People say there is not enough fishery protection duty hulls. I am not sure here.

River B1 and B2s are designed to achieve >300 days at sea. Are there any number for the Island class? At least, from the fact that
- Island class was not "x1.5 more" crewed --> at least x1.5 less sea going days
- one of the reason to make River OPV a 2000t is to stay at sea even in bad weather,
- also with 20 kt speed to cover larger area with good speed.
In short, I understand River B2 is ~twice as efficient as Island-class Patrol vessel.

For me, a fleet of 3 River B2 and 4 River B2 (*1) amount to "more than" 14 Island class patrol ship. Caribbean, Gib, and Indo-Asia-Pacific can simply be "postponed" if EEZ fishery duty arises with Brexit.

HMS Clyde has good radar, 30mm gun, with simplest level of CMS-1. It is not optimized for fishery duty, but rather for EEZ patrol and as a guard ship.

For fishery protection, smaller and civilian-design ship can do the work much cheaper. So, RN OPV fleet in full strength will be needed only for 1-2 years, until more cost efficient fishery protection fleet stands up (or deals were done with EU).

*1: HMS Forth will be at Falkland, replacing the 2 Castle-class OPVs, in the days with Island-class.

dmereifield wrote:HMS Trent is "gearing up to operate out of Gibraltar this autumn..."

https://www.royalnavy.mod.uk/news-and-l ... e-by-drone

Methinks someone is going to be on the carpet for that announcement :-

This
"Forth is the first of five second-generation River-class patrol ships to begin extended missions in regions around the globe under the RN’s broadening Forward Presence vision. All will be sustained by rotating crews every few months (à la minehunters in the Gulf for the past dozen years and, more recently, frigate HMS Montrose)."
is (?) a different concept from the 1.5 crews that went along keeping the ships at sea for a max number of days per year, but (roughly) in the same location
- the bonus being that when the ship goes 'into dock' then the crew can just rotate through the other 4 (in the class)

donald_of_tokyo wrote:People say there is not enough fishery protection duty hulls. I am not sure here.

The UK could double it's number of fisheries protection vessels and it still wouldn't be enough. Surveillance via drones could be a real game changer if the evidence gathered of illegal fishing led to a higher percentage of prosecutions.

Boarding vessels for inspection is only part of the equation. Finding out when and more importantly, where the fish were netted will be of paramount importance if a large percentage of non licensed foreign trawlers are to be excluded from the UK EEZ next year.

donald_of_tokyo wrote:For fishery protection, smaller and civilian-design ship can do the work much cheaper.

Yes, but only in certain circumstances. Some of the trawlers operating in British waters are approaching frigate size. This means they can haul in very rough weather when smaller "smaller civilian - designed" ships will be sheltering somewhere out of the swell. Here is one such example: https://www.vesselfinder.com/amp/vessel ... -235010670

From next January the median line will need to be patrolled by OPV sized vessels to ensure compliance by foreign vessels in all weather conditions if the HMG are serious about enforcing the territorial integrity of British waters. The RB1's and RB2's would be perfect for this role.

HMS Tyne has an impressive new mast.

ref: ""
Beautiful. May be good for the moral of sailors sent to the far south, to crew Forth.

Although direct putting twitter is not good. But the report itself is interesting.

1: from: ""
HMS Medway
Curacao. You were a busy but amazing stop. First handover nailed, Humanitarian and Disaster Relief stores embarked and duties assumed for APT (N).

2: from ""
Thank you to @RFAMountsBay for the superb handover and congratulations on 3 years of operations in the Caribbean. Fair winds as you cross the Atlantic and return to @ComdLittoralSG ‘s sphere.

donald_of_tokyo wrote:Very good shot!

I thought the same when it appeared in my feed. I also thought how poor the superstructure design is, that's a big chunk of space just for a couple of RIHBs

Compare it to a similar sized Spanish patrol vessel;

shark bait wrote:I thought the same when it appeared in my feed. I also thought how poor the superstructure design is, that's a big chunk of space just for a couple of RIHBs
Compare it to a similar sized Spanish patrol vessel;

I understand your hoping for better design, but I have a bit different point of view.

1: Meteoro-class is not a good comparison.
-- Meteoro-class (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meteoro-c ... rol_vessel) is 2860t FLD, while River B2 is 2000t FLD.
- It is rather comparable to Al Khareef hull (2800t FLD).
- Actually, it is Spanish version of Floreal-class frigates, 3000t FLD (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Floréal-class_frigate) or Holland class.

2: Direct "rival" of River B2 are as follows
- Bear class cutter USCG (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medium_endurance_cutter)
- Comandanti-class patrol vessel (Italy) (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comandant ... rol_vessel)
- Otago class OPV (RNZN), 1800t FLD. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protector ... rol_vessel, see https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/ ... _Force.jpg)
- Hida-class of Japan Coast Guard (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hida-class_patrol_vessel)
- Samuel Beckett-class (Ireland) (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samuel_Be ... rol_vessel)

So, yes River B2 is less equipped than the first 3 classes, but very similar to the last 2 classes. Among the 5, the last 3 classes are more a merchant level hull design, while the first 2 classes are a bit more fighty.

In short, I agree River B2 can be more "sexy" looking, say, at least as much as Otago class OPV, but "not that bad". For me, I think the open waist in both sides and the flight deck connected, River B2 has a very large mission deck, with good crane. Yes, the flight deck is actually a mission deck, and one of those missions/options are using as a flight deck. I hope to see some modular/USV/UUV systems to be operated from River B2, when needed, while cheaply/efficiently operated as patrol ship in peace time.

Over all, NOT BAD, is my understanding.

shark bait wrote:Compare it to a similar sized Spanish patrol vessel;

Yep, start with seakeeping ability....

Yeah, and why have the Spanish signed up to DCNS patrol corvette (after the Greeks)?

Large, if not huge, flight deck for a Wildcat. From HMS Trent twitter.

Good news! On going as planned, I guess.

NavyLookout
The 4th batch II river class OPV, HMS Tamar has been formally accepted by the RN from BAES_Maritime

see ""

Navylookout twitter feed.

UK Fishery Protection capability increased.
- New Joint Maritime Patrol Coordination Centre
- 50 extra fishery protection officers trained and carried by the 4 x UKBF cutters.
- Private contract to provide aerial surveillance.
ref: https://twitter.com/NavyLookout/status/ ... 4716584960
and https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/p ... 74496.html

I think it is going in right direction. For example, in Dover strait, the BF 42m cutters are very good assets to use for fishery protection. If needed, UKBF can "lease" RNZN 2 decommissioned Lake class patrol vessels, 55m long. I think these smaller than simpler assets are what is needed in number, so that River OPVs (if needed, also B2s) can concentrate in harsh environment, such as North Sea and in the middle of Irish Sea.

I thought we had 5 BF cutters. Didn't we buy a Finnish one as well?

Caribbean wrote:I thought we had 5 BF cutters. Didn't we buy a Finnish one as well?

Would seem to be an apt choice for fishery protection.

Caribbean wrote:I thought we had 5 BF cutters. Didn't we buy a Finnish one as well?

yes we do have 5 and you are thinking of Protector a 50 meter cutter

Is there a picture anywhere of a River batch one next to a batch 2