Caribbean wrote:Why the Archers and not the BF 20m Rhibs?What do you see as the advantage of one over the other?
ArmChairCivvy wrote:I must say that I thought we would have raided the Scot's fisheries protection fleet, for the cutter numbers
ArmChairCivvy wrote:Incidentally, been in a RIB in the Caribbean, repeatedly climbing up walls of waves higher than the length of the RIB... I did think we would all die (and we did turn back)
shark bait wrote:The RLNI has nothing to do with a border agency.
The UK does not have an enforcement coastguard because the UK does not have a maritime border. That is all about to change however....
SW1 wrote:And the uk hasn’t and doesn’t need an enforcement coastguard
SW1 wrote:Why is it about to change?
Caribbean wrote:SW1 wrote:Why is it about to change?
Not sure if you are getting the news wherever you are, but the leading edge of the migration issue is hitting our shores, Brexit is about to happen and the fisheries issue promises to become a little fraught. I won't bother with the longer-term stuff, but I believe that we are just seeing the start of the mass migration issues.
SW1 wrote:the coastguard been around 150 years prior to us joining the EU
SW1 wrote:The Calais jungles been there since 1999, people have been doing this since then down the channel tunnel, in lorries on boats.
SW1 wrote: None of this new it’s been going on for decades, as has the fishing issues the cod wars starting in 1949.
Don't know what they did until 1831, when "In 1831 the Coastguard took over the coastal policing, and from 1832-33 a number of violent events occured, culminating with a fight at Pevensey in 1833"SW1 wrote:HM Coastguard has existed since 1822
Caribbean wrote:SW1 wrote:the coastguard been around 150 years prior to us joining the EU
And for at least the first hundred years of their existence, they were an armed force (with their own cutters and mounted infantry for coastal patrol) that combined some or all of the functions of Customs and Excise (the "Renevue"), the Border force and the RN Auxiliary Reserve. All I'm suggesting is a modernised version of that.
Thanks for making my point for me (again)SW1 wrote:The Calais jungles been there since 1999, people have been doing this since then down the channel tunnel, in lorries on boats.
Yup. And that will remain an issue for the Border Force at all the ferry ports and air terminals. They seem to be quite effective, so now the boat people are starting to try their luck, which is going to require physical assets on the water, to prevent tragedies like the ones happening in the Med and Agean.SW1 wrote: None of this new it’s been going on for decades, as has the fishing issues the cod wars starting in 1949.
Right - so we just keep trucking along, responding to things in exactly the same way as we did in the past.
Yup - completely blinkered - it didn't work very well then, so of course it's going to work better now.
ArmChairCivvy wrote:Don't know what they did until 1831, when "In 1831 the Coastguard took over the coastal policing, and from 1832-33 a number of violent events occured, culminating with a fight at Pevensey in 1833"SW1 wrote:HM Coastguard has existed since 1822
Until then the enforcement type of CG had operated under a different name, and in a mercantilist world it was not about stopping imports (mainly):
"in 1661 the illegal exporting of wool was made punishable by the death sentence, this meant that the smugglers started to arm themselves, and the only way they could be stopped was by the army.
Before 1671 the collection of Customs Duties was generally let out to private individuals. During 1671 Charles II created the the Board of Customs.
The Romney Marshes became the centre of smuggling and the records show that in the 1670's 20,000 packs of wool were sent to Calais annually. The smugglers were now building fast and armed ships to carry out their nocturnal runs.
During the 1680's the Revenue Officers were provided with Customs sloops to enable them to patrol the coasts, and catch the smugglers."
The story does not tell when, after 1831, the above came back and the role of the CG changed to an emergency service.
SW1 wrote:as well as thousands of smaller airstrips, ports and marinas.
OK, the army has dropped out of the picture, but there is no denying of the overlaps withSW1 wrote: there is and has been clear distinction and roles between the coastguard and navy and police
the pendulum has been swinging back and forth beforeSW1 wrote:About 1923 it became purely a safety at sea organisation and was relieved of its task of stopping smuggling
SW1 wrote:there is and has been clear distinction and roles between the coastguard and navy and police.
SW1 wrote:There’s no reason to change and hyperbole around brexit isn’t one of them
dmereifield wrote:It won't change if the WA goes through, fisheries access will be a condition of leaving the backstop and obtaining an FTA. The French have already made that clear, and the Dutch and Spanish will back them on that