River Class (OPV) (RN)

Contains threads on Royal Navy equipment of the past, present and future.
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Tempest414
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Re: River Class (OPV) (RN)

Post by Tempest414 »

Here we go again of course the 3 B1's and a B2 will be OK to stop and enforce fishing boats a 42m Boarder force cutter with 12.7mm HMG bolted on could do the job just as well. The up gunning debate has always been about the B2's overseas role as seen in the Irish navy were their OPV are armed with 76 and 57 mm main gun's due to the fact they can and do carry out overseas deployments does this mean they are complete over kill for home waters duty no. The fact is if the EU wants to be whiter than white all we should have to do is report a fishing boat in our waters and they should fine the crew impound the boat for 3 months and pay the UK for fish on board it wont happen because they want their cake and eat it.

If there is no deal and the EU turns a blind eye to EU fishing boats in UK waters then they have No right to speak out about the Chines fishing fleet sweeping the seas clean

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SKB
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Re: River Class (OPV) (RN)

Post by SKB »

Media describing the River Class as "80 metre gunboats".... :roll:

(Batch 2 are actually 90m long :mrgreen:)

Scimitar54
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Re: River Class (OPV) (RN)

Post by Scimitar54 »

Some media even describing as Warboats !?!? :mrgreen:

Lord Jim
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Re: River Class (OPV) (RN)

Post by Lord Jim »

Is there a nautical version of the "Stinger" used by Police to slow down and stop runaway cars etc? At least something short of a 30mm round through the engine. :)

Also lets bring out unmanned patrol craft both on sea and in the air. A good way to train Protector crews, they could even do training conducting mock Brimstone attacks on fishing boats that are trespassing.

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SKB
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Re: River Class (OPV) (RN)

Post by SKB »

Scimitar54 wrote:Some media even describing as Warboats !?!? :mrgreen:
WARNING: Cringe headlines!: :mrgreen:
Image
Image
Image
:lol: :crazy: :mrgreen:
Also:
The Fishery Protection Squadron is the oldest squadron of the Royal Navy and can be traced back to 1481, although some sources, including the Royal Navy, date it to 1379.
RN Source: https://webarchive.nationalarchives.gov ... /index.htm

J. Tattersall

Re: River Class (OPV) (RN)

Post by J. Tattersall »

Tempest414 wrote:Here we go again of course the 3 B1's and a B2 will be OK to stop and enforce fishing boats a 42m Boarder force cutter with 12.7mm HMG bolted on could do the job just as well. The up gunning debate has always been about the B2's overseas role as seen in the Irish navy were their OPV are armed with 76 and 57 mm main gun's due to the fact they can and do carry out overseas deployments does this mean they are complete over kill for home waters duty no. The fact is if the EU wants to be whiter than white all we should have to do is report a fishing boat in our waters and they should fine the crew impound the boat for 3 months and pay the UK for fish on board it wont happen because they want their cake and eat it.

If there is no deal and the EU turns a blind eye to EU fishing boats in UK waters then they have No right to speak out about the Chines fishing fleet sweeping the seas clean
Perhaps the debate should be whether we might now need a US style Coast Guard with maritime law enforcement powers covering fisheries and environmental protection, customs and policing at sea.

Poiuytrewq
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Re: River Class (OPV) (RN)

Post by Poiuytrewq »

J. Tattersall wrote:Perhaps the debate should be whether we might now need a US style Coast Guard with maritime law enforcement powers covering fisheries and environmental protection, customs and policing at sea.
Its probably the super efficient RNLI that has stopped such a setup being formed before now.

A properly resourced coastguard would be the ideal outcome IMO but it wouldn't be cheap to stand it up from scratch.

Lord Jim
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Re: River Class (OPV) (RN)

Post by Lord Jim »

We could hand out Letters of Mark to private Captains with big enough vessels, authorising them to board and if necessary take control of foreign fishing boats operating illegally in UK waters, paying a bounty for any court and prosecuted! :D

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shark bait
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Re: River Class (OPV) (RN)

Post by shark bait »

Yep, the Brits absolutely need a Coastguard. Surely it has to be better to have a single organisation responsible for all the UK's maritime security instead of the mishmash we have at the moment? It also makes things better for the RN, enabling them to become a more streamlined organisation focused on the big picture, not reactive distractions like fish and migration.

However I would hold off calling for a US style Coast Guard, the UK don't need military enforcement.
@LandSharkUK

Jake1992
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Re: River Class (OPV) (RN)

Post by Jake1992 »

shark bait wrote:Yep, the Brits absolutely need a Coastguard. Surely it has to be better to have a single organisation responsible for all the UK's maritime security instead of the mishmash we have at the moment? It also makes things better for the RN, enabling them to become a more streamlined organisation focused on the big picture, not reactive distractions like fish and migration.

However I would hold off calling for a US style Coast Guard, the UK don't need military enforcement.
I completely agree but I would look at the vessels of such a coast guard being able to be armed down the line if it was ever needed.

The only real concern id have about the RN not being involved with EEZ work in any form if the training stream. We don’t want to end up like the USN where we’ve seen some people being in charge of destroyers that really aren’t up to scratch due to being chucked in the “deep end” per say.

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Tempest414
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Re: River Class (OPV) (RN)

Post by Tempest414 »

I have no problem with a coast guard I would say that it should be a armed force along the lines of the armed police with ships armed with a max of 12.7mm. As for the RN if they moved to a Multi-mission sloop with a Class of 12 ships

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Pseudo
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Re: River Class (OPV) (RN)

Post by Pseudo »

Tempest414 wrote:I have no problem with a coast guard I would say that it should be a armed force along the lines of the armed police with ships armed with a max of 12.7mm. As for the RN if they moved to a Multi-mission sloop with a Class of 12 ships
Couldn't we just buy the UK Border force a few more customs cutters and expand their role a bit? I'm not sure but I don't think that there's any particular legal reason why they couldn't mount small arms if required.

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ArmChairCivvy
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Re: River Class (OPV) (RN)

Post by ArmChairCivvy »

Pseudo wrote:Couldn't we just buy the UK Border force a few more customs cutters and expand their role a bit?
The last one, of these
UKBF 42m Customs Cutter

HMC Seeker (2001)
HMC Searcher (2002)
HMC Vigilant (2003)
HMC Valiant (2004)


+ HMC Protector (2014)
came with fittings for ASW work... in case any narco-subs make it this far (one sank off the coast of Galicia - with :) its precious cargo)
Ever-lasting truths: Multi-year budgets/ planning by necessity have to address the painful questions; more often than not the Either-Or prevails over Both-And.
If everyone is thinking the same, then someone is not thinking (attributed to Patton)

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SKB
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Re: River Class (OPV) (RN)

Post by SKB »

HMS Tamar commissioned into Royal Navy (17th December 2020)

Image

Repulse
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Re: River Class (OPV) (RN)

Post by Repulse »

OPVs out in force for the New Year?

Image
”We have no eternal allies, and we have no perpetual enemies. Our interests are eternal and perpetual, and those interests it is our duty to follow." - Lord Palmerston

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Tempest414
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Re: River Class (OPV) (RN)

Post by Tempest414 »

Add to this that HMS Echo also sailed this morning quite a show of force

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SKB
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Re: River Class (OPV) (RN)

Post by SKB »

HMS Trent


HMS Tyne


HMS Tamar


HMS Mersey

Repulse
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Re: River Class (OPV) (RN)

Post by Repulse »

SKB wrote:HMS Medway
?

I think you meant HMS Mersey?
”We have no eternal allies, and we have no perpetual enemies. Our interests are eternal and perpetual, and those interests it is our duty to follow." - Lord Palmerston

donald_of_tokyo
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Re: River Class (OPV) (RN)

Post by donald_of_tokyo »

Among the 7+1 River class OPVs,
- B1: HMS Severn at sea on surge Today
- B1: HMS Tyne at sea on surge Today
- B1: HMS Mersey at sea on surge Today
- B2: HMS Forth is forward deployed in Falkland island
- B2: HMS Medway forward deployed in Caribbean
- B2: HMS Trent at sea on surge Today
- B2: HMS Tamar at sea on surge Today
(- B2: HMS Spey yet to be commissioned)

Extremely high readiness. I understand this fact reflects the high efficiency of simple OPVs. If they were escorts, this will never happen.

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Tempest414
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Re: River Class (OPV) (RN)

Post by Tempest414 »

Yes it is a top effort by the Overseas Patrol Squadron however this has been planned for sometime by both the RN and HMG as a show of force also as said HMS Echo sailed yesterday morning so that will be 5 OPV's and Echo in coastal waters

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RichardIC
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Re: River Class (OPV) (RN)

Post by RichardIC »

Tempest414 wrote: however this has been planned for sometime by both the RN and HMG as a show of force
Show of force against who in order to achieve what?

It's not anything to do with "our fish" because HMG caved in on that one.

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Tempest414
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Re: River Class (OPV) (RN)

Post by Tempest414 »

RichardIC wrote:
Tempest414 wrote: however this has been planned for sometime by both the RN and HMG as a show of force
Show of force against who in order to achieve what?

It's not anything to do with "our fish" because HMG caved in on that one.
The first part of your post are both good questions however sending 5 of our 8 OPV's and HMS Echo = 6 ships to sea with in hours of each other just before the change over is a show of force which has been planned for sometime ( it maybe just for the papers now ) and they may just end up doing squadron drills

The second part of your post I couldn't agree more with

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Re: River Class (OPV) (RN)

Post by Poiuytrewq »

RichardIC wrote:It's not anything to do with "our fish" because HMG caved in on that one.
Did they?

It really depends if your strategic horizon is 5 minutes or 5 years.

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RichardIC
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Re: River Class (OPV) (RN)

Post by RichardIC »

Poiuytrewq wrote: Did they?

It really depends if your strategic horizon is 5 minutes or 5 years.
"Strategic horizon"!!!?

Absolutely they caved. Strategic horizon doesn't come into it. They got what they were given and failed to take back control.

Do you actually think this is part of a cunning plan? Let them think they've won for now and then in five years, when they're not paying attention, we'll have them.

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Re: River Class (OPV) (RN)

Post by Jake1992 »

RichardIC wrote:
Poiuytrewq wrote: Did they?

It really depends if your strategic horizon is 5 minutes or 5 years.
"Strategic horizon"!!!?

Absolutely they caved. Strategic horizon doesn't come into it. They got what they were given and failed to take back control.

Do you actually think this is part of a cunning plan? Let them think they've won for now and then in five years, when they're not paying attention, we'll have them.
I agree they did cave on fishing but that is now over for 5 years. To me it’s what they do in these 5 years if HMG sit with their thumb up the arse then they truely don’t care, but if they spend this 5 years helping to build up the fishing fleet and all the goes with it along with building up FPS or build a coast guard all while bringing in new sustainable rules then I can see it working longer term.

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