River Class (OPV) (RN)

[Repulse]

I understand the B1 Rivers are capable of storing and operating a LCVP from the deck area.

[donald_of_tokyo]

I understand the B1 Rivers are capable of storing and operating a LCVP from the deck area.

Hmm, I'm afraid it is a kind of "fitted for but not with" = the crane itself to handle the LCVP is yet to be mounted. I can see no such crane as capable as 25t and as long-armed as handling the LCVP. If it is really doable with the small crane as we can see on them, there must be a trial photo (certification is obtained only by actually trying).

In short, I doubt it, although happy to be corrected....

# Not saying it is not capable of, but saying "to do that, additional crane will be needed on River B1".

[donald_of_tokyo]

HMS Trent back in Med/Gib. So her deployment is routine, and continuing.

By the way, a very nice photo showing her profile from almost right aside.



""

[Repulse]

I wonder if HMS Trent will ever formally be based in Gibraltar? The Brexit politics will prevent it in the short term, but surely longer term it makes sense, as constantly sailing from the UK to the Mediterranean must reduce availability by about 20%.

[ArmChairCivvy]

reduce availability by about 20%.

must be balanced against the fact that there is 'no' shore manning at the Gib 'station'
... even the navy reserve power plant was sold off, so that bets from the UK and futures from Chicago can all keep spinning through Gib

The point being that to host other than patrol boats will create new costs.

[Aethulwulf]

I wonder if HMS Trent will ever formally be based in Gibraltar? The Brexit politics will prevent it in the short term, but surely longer term it makes sense, as constantly sailing from the UK to the Mediterranean must reduce availability by about 20%.

It takes just over 3 days to sail from Falmouth to Gibraltar at 15 knots. Assuming she makes the round trip 4 times a year, results in just under 9% of her 300 days a year at sea. Not too bad, considering the alternative reinvestment cost for Gibraltar facilities.

[Repulse]

Must admit I had not appreciated the shortage of facilities in Gibraltar - personally would invest in those, as at the very least it makes a statement in the region, though could be used as a hub for other ships. I suspect the Eastern Med will be a region of interest for a while, and Cyprus will be limited in what it can support.

[Tempest414]

I wonder if HMS Trent will ever formally be based in Gibraltar? The Brexit politics will prevent it in the short term, but surely longer term it makes sense, as constantly sailing from the UK to the Mediterranean must reduce availability by about 20%.

It takes just over 3 days to sail from Falmouth to Gibraltar at 15 knots. Assuming she makes the round trip 4 times a year, results in just under 9% of her 300 days a year at sea. Not too bad, considering the alternative reinvestment cost for Gibraltar facilities.

I don't think it is that much of stretch to see a B2 River carry out 3 x 3.5 month deployments a year from the UK to the Med giving about 290 days a year in the Med

[S M H]

I don't think it is that much of stretch to see a B2 River carry out 3 x 3.5 nth deployments a year from the UK to the Med giving about 290 days a year in the Med

That is not far from the ops spec that was a requirement for 250 days working. With time alongside in Gibraltar this not included in the guard ship ops spec. H M S Gurkha the last ship to do this had less time due to her maintenance requirements she had spent years in reserve. Up arming her with a 40mm would be prudent once the type31 supply support chain is established. As for singleton ops she is under armed without air cover.

[J. Tattersall]

I'm almost tempted to suggest taking the 6" guns off of the Belfast and sticking them on the B2s in the vain hope that it might finally put an end to this up arming thread.

[ArmChairCivvy]

Nah... they are no good, these days with all those fast , aerial targets.

"the US 8"/55 Mark 16, deployed on the three cruisers of the Des Moines class in the late 1940s, and the 8"/55 Mark 71 tested aboard the destroyer USS Hull in the late 1970s. Both weapons achieved a rate of fire of 12 rounds per barrel per minute"
which is ridiculously bad compared to the 120 mm Bofors, five of them available NOW when the Indonesian navy is decommissioning some frigates:

"Designation 120 mm/46 (4.7") TAK120
Ship Class Used On Finland: Turunmaa class and Pohjanmaa
Indonesia: Fatahilla class
Date Of Design 1963
Rate Of Fire 80 rounds per minute cyclic

[Scimitar54]

Trying to hit a needle in a haystack with a needle is an object lesson in a waste of time, no matter how many times you drive the pin home. A hit with a RPG on the other hand will find its target. Why else were the cannons fitted to aircraft later during the course of WW2 seen as superior to the machine guns fitted earlier on. The machine guns might have had rate of fire on their side, BUT NOT THE DESTRUCTIVE EFFECT. What is needed is the best tool for the job! For me the Main Gun on a T31 that ought to be the base version of the 127mm and on the River B2 that ought to be the 57mm Bofors. As far as I am concerned anything less than these is “Penny Pinching” and “Spoiling the Ship for a Ha’porth of Tar”.

[donald_of_tokyo]

HMS Trent 16-t crane working.

from ""

[ArmChairCivvy]

Looks like they listened to @Tattersall... and are about to hoist that HMS Belfast twin mount onboard

[Scimitar54]

Er the ‘Belfast’s main armament consists of Four x TRIPLE Gunned Turrets, Not Twin Guns.

[Tempest414]

I'm almost tempted to suggest taking the 6" guns off of the Belfast and sticking them on the B2s in the vain hope that it might finally put an end to this up arming thread.

We just have to move on there are two camps as far as up gunning goes you are in the keep the 30mm and I am in the fit a 40mm but for me the more pressing need for the B2,s is the need for a good UAV to give the ships command good eyes over the horizon and the ability to track targets of interest plus we need to push on with working up and deploying unmanned off board USV's and ORC with RM for running down targets of interest and training. The ability for the RM to embark 4 ORC and 50 men will give them a good cheap platform to conduct training raids in the MED and the Black sea along with allies skills they can take on to the new frigate fleets as they come on line

[Aethulwulf]

Er the ‘Belfast’s main armament consists of Four x TRIPLE Gunned Turrets, Not Twin Guns.

Only four turrets! What is going to be fitted to the fifth River B2?

[Tempest414]

Er the ‘Belfast’s main armament consists of Four x TRIPLE Gunned Turrets, Not Twin Guns.

Only four turrets! What is going to be fitted to the fifth River B2?

We could just be more realistic and fit the 4" (102mm) secondary guns to all five

[SKB]

[donald_of_tokyo]

The bad news:
Average cost per ship £130million (!)

Of course not only for the 5 OPVs, no problem.

(Hmm, actually it IS a problem, but not because of the OPV, but of the delay of T26 and MOD/RN lack of any good plan-B).

[donald_of_tokyo]

HMS Forth visiting South Georgia.

from "" and another 3 tweets from HMS Forth.

[donald_of_tokyo]

Canadian Navy Kingston class MCDV, HMCS Summerside, operating Puma hand-held UAV in Caribbean ocean for counter drug operation. Surely this can be done by River class OPV, such as HMS Medway. With large flight deck on the latter, handling them will be easier.

I think RN shall start this now (or may be already started?). As Puma is small and cheap, it is not as much capable as ScanEagle or alike, but it is easier to buy in number. We know UK/MOD is trying/operating Puma. Just need to buy 24 sets of them to be operated in all 19 escorts and 5 River B2s. It will not cost much, I understand?

[Tempest414]

We know Puma UAV has been operated off both the LPD and Bay class to date and as far as the all 8 rivers goes it would address the first needs of the OPV's eyes on for ships command during boarding op's

[Lord Jim]

It would also enable more contacts to be eyeballed when conducting Fisheries Protection duties.

[J. Tattersall]

Brexit: UK-EU trade talks to resume with one day to go


...........A major sticking point in negotiations has been access to UK fishing waters, with the EU warning that without access to UK waters for its fleets, UK fishermen will no longer get special access to EU markets to sell their goods.

The MoD has said it has conducted "extensive planning and preparation" to ensure it is ready for a range of scenarios at the end of the transition period, including having 14,000 personnel on standby to support the government over the winter with the EU transition, as well as with Covid support and other events such as severe weather.

Four offshore patrol boats will be available to monitor UK waters and the MoD said it would have "robust enforcement measures in place to protect the UK's rights as an independent coastal state".

from https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-55283489
A non-upgunned River class OPV now looks so very proportionate!