River Class (OPV) (RN)
Re: River Class (OPV) (RN)
In the US though the cost guard is a militarised force the same to an existent would be needed here as well if they were to take over the current EEZ role.
I’m all for making the whole thing more streamlined but wouldn’t it be better to combine all the other agencies but keep the OPVs in the RN that way you don’t need a separate militarised force out side the RN
I’m all for making the whole thing more streamlined but wouldn’t it be better to combine all the other agencies but keep the OPVs in the RN that way you don’t need a separate militarised force out side the RN
- shark bait
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Re: River Class (OPV) (RN)
In Germany the coastguard is "a civilian law enforcement organisation whose primary missions are border protection, maritime environmental protection, shipping safety, fishery protection and customs enforcement".
That's why I specifically mentioned the Germans, there's no need for a military coastguard. Keep the military for the higher value roles.
That's why I specifically mentioned the Germans, there's no need for a military coastguard. Keep the military for the higher value roles.
@LandSharkUK
Re: River Class (OPV) (RN)
Fishery Protection has been a military task for at least the last 350 years, though the origins go back to Edward IV in the late 1400's. Sometimes there are things that only naval officers have the legal authority to do. Civilians have limited authority outside of territorial waters.RichardIC wrote:It's a law enforcement matter. It doesn't need military involvement.
The pessimist sees difficulty in every opportunity. The optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty.
Winston Churchill
Winston Churchill
Re: River Class (OPV) (RN)
That maybe so but are you really going to have unarmed civilian vessels doing the FRE role ?shark bait wrote:In Germany the coastguard is "a civilian law enforcement organisation whose primary missions are border protection, maritime environmental protection, shipping safety, fishery protection and customs enforcement".
That's why I specifically mentioned the Germans, there's no need for a military coastguard. Keep the military for the higher value roles.
Like I said I’m all for streamlining things but certain roles need a militarised force to undertake them, if you took say the current what 4 odd agencies and reduced then to 2 a civilian one ( UKBF, Fisheries abd others ) and the RN OPVs then you have stream lined.
Re: River Class (OPV) (RN)
Ok!..... ??.. ..!Scimitar54 wrote:If you really believe that, then by the same definition, why have QRA for incursions into UK air space, or an Army to defend against invasion. A raid on UK fish stocks IS an attack on the assets of this country and individuals who commit such offences (with or without political support from a foreign power) are highly likely to be committing other offences as well. Or perhaps you think that unarmed policemen still deter armed robbers as well. Get real!
Re: River Class (OPV) (RN)
Would have to agree - seems a complete waste given that for a small amount we could have a flexible platform that would last 10 years (and help fill the inevitable gaps due to funding). The 5 B2s will be forward deployed to cover the drop in GP Frigates, having an OPV capable of acting as a lily pad for a ASW Merlin in UK and Atlantic waters has great value.RAF>FAN wrote:https://www.portsmouth.co.uk/news/defen ... de-2860894
”We have no eternal allies, and we have no perpetual enemies. Our interests are eternal and perpetual, and those interests it is our duty to follow." - Lord Palmerston
- Tempest414
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Re: River Class (OPV) (RN)
As I have said in the past Clyde should have been made the Nav training ship giving the navy a lot of training option including small deck training for helicopters and the 3 B1's left to get on with EEZ work
- ArmChairCivvy
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Re: River Class (OPV) (RN)
While seconding the post by Tempest above,
- not sure if the MPAs can drop life rafts, or does that job still need a Herc to be called out?
I agree with this one, too, though surely there is more value in the SAR role, considering how far out the UK obligation zone stretches out in the AtlanticRepulse wrote: as a lily pad for a ASW Merlin in UK and Atlantic waters has great value.
- not sure if the MPAs can drop life rafts, or does that job still need a Herc to be called out?
Ever-lasting truths: Multi-year budgets/ planning by necessity have to address the painful questions; more often than not the Either-Or prevails over Both-And.
If everyone is thinking the same, then someone is not thinking (attributed to Patton)
If everyone is thinking the same, then someone is not thinking (attributed to Patton)
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- clivestonehouse1
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Re: River Class (OPV) (RN)
The thinner plating was a direct result of experiences from the Falklands war.
It was found that bombs and missiles caused far less damage if they just punched through (of course unless they hit critical areas) rather than detonating against thicker plates.
HMS Plymouth took four bomb strikes which failed to detonate and after rapid repairs was operational again after only six days.
Her rapid turnaround was primarily due to the bombs hitting thinner deck areas.
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It was found that bombs and missiles caused far less damage if they just punched through (of course unless they hit critical areas) rather than detonating against thicker plates.
HMS Plymouth took four bomb strikes which failed to detonate and after rapid repairs was operational again after only six days.
Her rapid turnaround was primarily due to the bombs hitting thinner deck areas.
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Re: River Class (OPV) (RN)
So thinner seems to mean less damage to the hull, but what about the crew?
Re: River Class (OPV) (RN)
Doesnt matter either way if it detonates. The thermobaric effect would be catastrophic unless you have Krupps cemented steel. Even then most modern ASM have a binary shaped charge.
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Re: River Class (OPV) (RN)
Thicker plates is good for ballistic protection, which is the rationale of Dutch Holland-class OPV using thicker steel for its hull. The reason why they are so heavy is partly because of this.
But, as no export nor follow on design with similar concept is there, I suppose drawback was non-negligible = need more fuel to steam.
But, as no export nor follow on design with similar concept is there, I suppose drawback was non-negligible = need more fuel to steam.
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Re: River Class (OPV) (RN)
Looking at HMS Tamar twitter feed, "https://twitter.com/hms_tamar".
They have really really nice photos there. Great work. To name a few ...
It is worth seeing the original large scale images. Followings are all "small" version.
They have really really nice photos there. Great work. To name a few ...
It is worth seeing the original large scale images. Followings are all "small" version.
Re: River Class (OPV) (RN)
Wonder if we will get any news on where she’ll be operating...
”We have no eternal allies, and we have no perpetual enemies. Our interests are eternal and perpetual, and those interests it is our duty to follow." - Lord Palmerston
Re: River Class (OPV) (RN)
(Forces TV) 9th June 2020
The Royal Navy's newest and 'greenest' ship has been commissioned into the fleet. HMS Tamar, a Batch-2 River-class offshore patrol vessel (OPV), raised the White Ensign from her deck for the first time, on the river in south-west England that shares her name. Over the past few weeks, the ship has been carrying out acceptance trials around Plymouth Sound and the south-west sea training areas. The Navy said HMS Tamar is also the service's greenest ship, due to catalytic converters which reduce nitrogen-based emissions from her engine exhausts by up to 95%.
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Re: River Class (OPV) (RN)
HMS Medway is carrying 7m-class rubber boat on top of her starboard waist's 6m-ISO container.
HMS Forth was (still is?) carrying rigid-radar (of RM) on her port waist, at Falkland island.
Surely, both are not limited to their own 2 RHIBs. I CAN imagine they carrying Altas electric ARCIMS USVs in future?
HMS Forth was (still is?) carrying rigid-radar (of RM) on her port waist, at Falkland island.
Surely, both are not limited to their own 2 RHIBs. I CAN imagine they carrying Altas electric ARCIMS USVs in future?
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Re: River Class (OPV) (RN)
What are the odds on China Extending an invitation for a courtesy visit to Hong Kong by HMS Tamar? About 100/1 against, I should say!
- ArmChairCivvy
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Re: River Class (OPV) (RN)
The crane, as far as weight is concerned, could lift an LCVP. Not sure if the lifting arm is long enough to handle such an awkward shape smoothly into the water?donald_of_tokyo wrote: Surely, both are not limited to their own 2 RHIBs.
Ever-lasting truths: Multi-year budgets/ planning by necessity have to address the painful questions; more often than not the Either-Or prevails over Both-And.
If everyone is thinking the same, then someone is not thinking (attributed to Patton)
If everyone is thinking the same, then someone is not thinking (attributed to Patton)