River Class (OPV) (RN)

Contains threads on Royal Navy equipment of the past, present and future.
serge750
Senior Member
Posts: 1068
Joined: 30 Apr 2015, 18:34
United Kingdom

Re: River Class (OPV) (RN)

Post by serge750 »

I read somewhere it was for quicker transit times to their local area's of interest, & also based near their river name sakes, ie Tyne - Newcastle etc, also that the batch 2's will be based in Portsmouth, don't know if this was fact ( 'tis the internet after all ! ) but seems logical.....

dmereifield
Senior Member
Posts: 2762
Joined: 03 Aug 2016, 20:29
United Kingdom

Re: River Class (OPV) (RN)

Post by dmereifield »

Thanks guys. So does that mean that we are expecting RNR to partially crew them?

Additionally, where are their local areas of interest, and why are they interested in these areas? I don't know why but I had always assumed that the B1s were usually patrolling the East and South coast, not the Irish sea/West coast.

SDL
Member
Posts: 763
Joined: 30 Apr 2015, 20:52
United Kingdom

Re: River Class (OPV) (RN)

Post by SDL »

Too much sense for the MOD though...

Repulse
Donator
Posts: 4579
Joined: 05 May 2015, 22:46
United Kingdom

Re: River Class (OPV) (RN)

Post by Repulse »

The B1s will be mannned by RN crew, and that’s a good thing. I’d like @RicardC to explain why I missed the point as for an Island nation reinforcing that the RN has a key role to play in day to day life is exactly the point.
”We have no eternal allies, and we have no perpetual enemies. Our interests are eternal and perpetual, and those interests it is our duty to follow." - Lord Palmerston

User avatar
ArmChairCivvy
Senior Member
Posts: 16312
Joined: 05 May 2015, 21:34
United Kingdom

Re: River Class (OPV) (RN)

Post by ArmChairCivvy »

serge750 wrote:the batch 2's will be based in Portsmouth
and deployed "Navy like" rather than for counting fish... while we await all these 'real' ships to roll off (if they will) from the rejuvenated ship-building production lines
Repulse wrote:The B1s will be mannned by RN crew
Are you aware that some MCM vessels are/ will be stripped of their crews, to make this happen?
dmereifield wrote: not the Irish sea/West coast.
https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-4GZIP_yF4OE/ ... eufish.jpg
Ever-lasting truths: Multi-year budgets/ planning by necessity have to address the painful questions; more often than not the Either-Or prevails over Both-And.
If everyone is thinking the same, then someone is not thinking (attributed to Patton)

abc123
Senior Member
Posts: 2900
Joined: 10 May 2015, 18:15
United Kingdom

Re: River Class (OPV) (RN)

Post by abc123 »

dmereifield wrote:I just noticed that the B1s will be based at Newcastle, Liverpool and the Cardiff - does anyone know the operational rationale is for basing at these locations? In addition, what facilities does the RN have at these sites for the vessels and the crew?
Agreed, I don't see why this forward basing? Just increasing logistical costs. Newcastle isn't Bahrein.
Fortune favors brave sir, said Carrot cheerfully.
What's her position about heavily armed, well prepared and overmanned armies?
Oh, noone's ever heard of Fortune favoring them, sir.
According to General Tacticus, it's because they favor themselves…

Repulse
Donator
Posts: 4579
Joined: 05 May 2015, 22:46
United Kingdom

Re: River Class (OPV) (RN)

Post by Repulse »

ArmChairCivvy wrote:stripped of their crews, to make this happen?
There already 8 crews for 7 Sandowns and the two crews from the 2 Hunts decommissioned at the end of last year.
”We have no eternal allies, and we have no perpetual enemies. Our interests are eternal and perpetual, and those interests it is our duty to follow." - Lord Palmerston

User avatar
RichardIC
Senior Member
Posts: 1371
Joined: 10 May 2015, 16:59
United Kingdom

Re: River Class (OPV) (RN)

Post by RichardIC »

Repulse wrote:The B1s will be mannned by RN crew, and that’s a good thing. I’d like @RicardC to explain why I missed the point as for an Island nation reinforcing that the RN has a key role to play in day to day life is exactly the point.
The point you missed was about crew harmony and morale.

By fairly common consensus the biggest issue facing the RN is crew shortages, and particularly outflow of experienced people who are fed up of being shunted from pillar to post.

Lack of affinity among the population of Cardiff is possibly a lesser issue.

S M H
Member
Posts: 433
Joined: 03 May 2015, 12:59
United Kingdom

Re: River Class (OPV) (RN)

Post by S M H »

abc123 wrote:Agreed, I don't see why this forward basing? Just increasing logistical costs. Newcastle isn't Bahrein.
It was proposed to disperse the fishery squadrons to the U.R.N. sites at Liverpool Newcastle Milford haven (vessels in reserve storage at time) when they closed the base at Rosyth. The cost was negligible as the engineering support could have been provided by commercial yards on the Tyne and Mersey. Milford haven. With a small staff for stores and admin at the existing R.N.R. sites. However this was abandoned due to political shenanigans and the need to keep two dockyard and bases open on the south coast. I hope history dose not repeat its self.

abc123
Senior Member
Posts: 2900
Joined: 10 May 2015, 18:15
United Kingdom

Re: River Class (OPV) (RN)

Post by abc123 »

S M H wrote:
abc123 wrote:Agreed, I don't see why this forward basing? Just increasing logistical costs. Newcastle isn't Bahrein.
It was proposed to disperse the fishery squadrons to the U.R.N. sites at Liverpool Newcastle Milford haven (vessels in reserve storage at time) when they closed the base at Rosyth. The cost was negligible as the engineering support could have been provided by commercial yards on the Tyne and Mersey. Milford haven. With a small staff for stores and admin at the existing R.N.R. sites. However this was abandoned due to political shenanigans and the need to keep two dockyard and bases open on the south coast. I hope history dose not repeat its self.

Well, isn't Faslane and Portsmouth/Plymouth for northern and southern part of the UK enough?
Fortune favors brave sir, said Carrot cheerfully.
What's her position about heavily armed, well prepared and overmanned armies?
Oh, noone's ever heard of Fortune favoring them, sir.
According to General Tacticus, it's because they favor themselves…

S M H
Member
Posts: 433
Joined: 03 May 2015, 12:59
United Kingdom

Re: River Class (OPV) (RN)

Post by S M H »

abc123 wrote:Well, isn't Faslane and Portsmouth/Plymouth for northern and southern part of the UK enough?
It was more to do with the retention of the fishery vessels basing locally so having a local R.N. presence as the navy was under pressure politically to G.O.C.O. at the time. Following the fishery protection vessels running as done by the Scottish office. By forward basing the ships would have been adopted locally. Making any reductions a political nightmare. The treasury driven civil crewing and management harder. By dockyard deployment reductions in numbers could be carried out without the public outcry that would have been caused by a locally based ships as they would have been adopted by the surrounding areas. Effectively what the army does with the regimental system for years.

Poiuytrewq
Senior Member
Posts: 3952
Joined: 15 Dec 2017, 10:25
United Kingdom

Re: River Class (OPV) (RN)

Post by Poiuytrewq »

If you are going base the Rivers around the UK why not send either HMS Forth or HMS Spey up to North or North East Scotland? Rosyth, Aberdeen or Inverness?

In effect they could act as another FRE for vessels entering the North Sea from the Norwegian Sea.

The area around the Hebrides and Shetland/Orkney makes up a large portion of the UK's EEZ.
EEZ TT_0.png
These vessels are already affiliated to Moray and Sterling.
https://www.royalnavy.mod.uk/news-and-l ... with-moray
https://www.royalnavy.mod.uk/our-organi ... /hms-forth

User avatar
ArmChairCivvy
Senior Member
Posts: 16312
Joined: 05 May 2015, 21:34
United Kingdom

Re: River Class (OPV) (RN)

Post by ArmChairCivvy »

All kinds of 'old' things could resurface, like
"The UK claimed Rockall in 1955, but Ireland, Iceland and Denmark have previously challenged that claim.

Sovereignty over the islet was settled in the UK's favour in 2014.

However, some in the Republic have warned that the UK's exit from the EU could cause Britain to "pull up the drawbridge" on international use of the area."
Ever-lasting truths: Multi-year budgets/ planning by necessity have to address the painful questions; more often than not the Either-Or prevails over Both-And.
If everyone is thinking the same, then someone is not thinking (attributed to Patton)

User avatar
SKB
Senior Member
Posts: 7930
Joined: 30 Apr 2015, 18:35
England

Re: River Class (OPV) (RN)

Post by SKB »

Image

donald_of_tokyo
Senior Member
Posts: 5545
Joined: 06 May 2015, 13:18
Japan

Re: River Class (OPV) (RN)

Post by donald_of_tokyo »

Poiuytrewq wrote:If you are going base the Rivers around the UK why not send either HMS Forth or HMS Spey up to North or North East Scotland? Rosyth, Aberdeen or Inverness?

In effect they could act as another FRE for vessels entering the North Sea from the Norwegian Sea.
If it is fishery, there are 3 fishery patrol vessels of Scotland there. If it is for FRE, like QRA, Inverness would be great.

How about Scapa flow?

User avatar
Tempest414
Senior Member
Posts: 5548
Joined: 04 Jan 2018, 23:39
France

Re: River Class (OPV) (RN)

Post by Tempest414 »

donald_of_tokyo wrote:How about Scapa flow?
we could also reopen RNAS Twatt (HMS Wren) to fly crews in and out of

Repulse
Donator
Posts: 4579
Joined: 05 May 2015, 22:46
United Kingdom

Re: River Class (OPV) (RN)

Post by Repulse »

Listening to Macron and perhaps naively thinking that the UK government will not just rollover, I think fish is going to be a hot topic over the next few years, so good to have these ships available.

Would like the Rivers with their flat work deck & 25t crane also to be used as mothership test beds for the unmanned Atlas Elektronik ARCIMS MCM systems. Also, interestingly the same system is capable of ASW ops also - never knew that... https://www.uk.atlas-elektronik.com/sol ... rcims.html
”We have no eternal allies, and we have no perpetual enemies. Our interests are eternal and perpetual, and those interests it is our duty to follow." - Lord Palmerston

dmereifield
Senior Member
Posts: 2762
Joined: 03 Aug 2016, 20:29
United Kingdom

Re: River Class (OPV) (RN)

Post by dmereifield »

Repulse wrote:Listening to Macron and perhaps naively thinking that the UK government will not just rollover, I think fish is going to be a hot topic over the next few years, so good to have these ships available.

Would like the Rivers with their flat work deck & 25t crane also to be used as mothership test beds for the unmanned Atlas Elektronik ARCIMS MCM systems. Also, interestingly the same system is capable of ASW ops also - never knew that... https://www.uk.atlas-elektronik.com/sol ... rcims.html
If May's withdrawal agreement goes through as currently comprised, we'll not need them. The next government will have little choice but to conceded access to our waters, it will be the CFP in all but name

User avatar
ArmChairCivvy
Senior Member
Posts: 16312
Joined: 05 May 2015, 21:34
United Kingdom

Re: River Class (OPV) (RN)

Post by ArmChairCivvy »

Repulse wrote:with their flat work deck & 25t crane also to be used as mothership test beds for the unmanned Atlas Elektronik ARCIMS MCM systems.
That is their only 'life line' past 2020; right now the delays with their successors, together with dipping into MCM crews to schedule more bodies into the shifts, will make it possible to man them
- whether this will be on the 'old' 1.5x basis, or whether the hrs at sea will be cut... anybody's guess

An ideal opportunity to backfill for MCM from RNR; rather than tie some of the (tupperware) boats up for an extended period
- rather than 'call up' reserves, do accelerated/ brought forwrad training as I wonder if the former would even fit with employment contracts... as we are not in a national emergency - yet :) - is another question. Never seen one, but they were renewed to make having such contracts for some in the workforce less onerous for employers
Ever-lasting truths: Multi-year budgets/ planning by necessity have to address the painful questions; more often than not the Either-Or prevails over Both-And.
If everyone is thinking the same, then someone is not thinking (attributed to Patton)

User avatar
shark bait
Senior Member
Posts: 6427
Joined: 05 May 2015, 21:18
Pitcairn Island

Re: River Class (OPV) (RN)

Post by shark bait »

I struggle to get excited by this news. The Royal Navy already have 4 ships sat empty because of a lack of crew, the RFA have another 2 sat empty. Attempting to expand before fixing the other issues is a foolish distraction.
@LandSharkUK

User avatar
shark bait
Senior Member
Posts: 6427
Joined: 05 May 2015, 21:18
Pitcairn Island

Re: River Class (OPV) (RN)

Post by shark bait »

I struggle to get excited by this news. The Royal Navy already have 4 ships sat empty because of a lack of crew, the RFA have another 2 sat empty. Attempting to expand before fixing the other issues is a foolish distraction.
@LandSharkUK

User avatar
shark bait
Senior Member
Posts: 6427
Joined: 05 May 2015, 21:18
Pitcairn Island

Re: River Class (OPV) (RN)

Post by shark bait »

I struggle to get excited by this news. The Royal Navy already have 4 ships sat empty because of a lack of crew, the RFA have another 2 sat empty. Attempting to expand before fixing the other issues is a foolish distraction.
@LandSharkUK

User avatar
ArmChairCivvy
Senior Member
Posts: 16312
Joined: 05 May 2015, 21:34
United Kingdom

Re: River Class (OPV) (RN)

Post by ArmChairCivvy »

shark bait wrote:Attempting to expand
Where is the expansion?
Took the identical (to the previous post) text out
- when the system gives you no feed back, hitting the 'action' button is a natural reflex
Ever-lasting truths: Multi-year budgets/ planning by necessity have to address the painful questions; more often than not the Either-Or prevails over Both-And.
If everyone is thinking the same, then someone is not thinking (attributed to Patton)

User avatar
ArmChairCivvy
Senior Member
Posts: 16312
Joined: 05 May 2015, 21:34
United Kingdom

Re: River Class (OPV) (RN)

Post by ArmChairCivvy »

And now a helpful soul took my original text out :(

A short version:

So B2, the last 2, only will get christened in 2019
- all going well, and the bug fixes from the early ships carrying over well, too
... we will get an orderly transition in 2020
1. The CFP 'scare' will (?) go away
2. B1s go out
3. B2s come in smoothly
4. The crew (not crews, but individuals more likely) borrowed from the MCM fleet go back and their hulls will not stay tied for too long (... to deteriorate)
Ever-lasting truths: Multi-year budgets/ planning by necessity have to address the painful questions; more often than not the Either-Or prevails over Both-And.
If everyone is thinking the same, then someone is not thinking (attributed to Patton)

Brasil
Member
Posts: 53
Joined: 24 Aug 2018, 01:40
Brazil

Re: River Class (OPV) (RN)

Post by Brasil »

(google translate, sorry guys)
Brazilian Navy to receive patrol vessel HMS Clyde in 2019
November 29, 2018 8814 33
Image

The journalist Roberto Caiafa of the website of Technology & Defense magazine reported that the Brazilian Navy is expected to receive from the Royal Navy the patrol vessel HMS Clyde in 2019.

The information was given during the event Dialogue of the Brazil-United Kingdom Defense Industry, held in the 8th Naval District (Navy Cultural Center in São Paulo),
Rear Admiral Amaury Calheiros Boite Junior, Maintenance Superintendent of the Program Management Board of the Navy (DgePM).
 
The Rear Admiral confirmed that the Brazilian Navy has been in talks with the Royal Navy and BAE Systems seeking the leasing of the "River" class OPV, due to take place at the end of 2019.

https://www.naval.com.br/blog/2018/11/2 ... e-em-2019/

Post Reply