River Class (OPV) (RN)

[RetroSicotte]

No, these new Rivers do not achieve that effect.
Because of this new batch there are fewer small vessels in the fleet, after the RN have been forces to scrap some mine-hunters to pay for them.
Continually shedding real capability to try and cover political balls ups.

Do not agree. River are providing 320 days per year sea going days. Hunt cannot. In view of training, River is much much better. Of course, in view of mine hunting, not.

Rivers are already doing that.

We're paying hundreds of millions in order to do the exact same thing they already did.

[donald_of_tokyo]

Rivers are already doing that.
We're paying hundreds of millions in order to do the exact same thing they already did.

It is a different issue. For me, River B2 is there because of T26, not River B1 nor B2 itself. Again and again, River B2 is a "landmark" of RN/MOD inability to think strategically, but the ship itself is no problem.

Positively saying, River B2 saved T26 (good), and at the same time, improved the OPV capability significantly (good).

RN/MOD is bad, T26 is bad, but River B2 is good.

[Caribbean]

Continually shedding real capability to try and cover political balls ups

I'm not sure that the delay to the T26 design can be laid at the feet of politicians (unlike the CATOBAR/ STOVL prevarication over the carriers). I'm no big fan of TOBA, but was it totally a "balls up". The objective was good (to maintain sovereign ship-building capability and Key Industrial Capabilities), even if there were unfortunate consequences caused by the failure of the design process to meet its schedule. What has happened with rationalisation of the naval yards, TOBA, the ACA and now the T31e (i.e. use of commercial yards to supplement BAE capacity) is very much in line with what was proposed in the Defence Industrial Strategy of 2005 (a point often overlooked in the T31e debate). One of the major drivers was the realisation that, if all the programs followed the timescales then planned, that the BAE shipbuilding workforce would peak at around 16,000 in c. 2009 and then decline to c. 4000 in 2023. Personally, I feel that attempting to maintain a constant, highly skilled, workforce in a central specialist yard and to use commercial facilities for the "lower-skilled metal-bashing" jobs to handle the surges is a more sensible approach, since the commercial yards can switch capacity to other projects more easily than the naval yards. Once you factor in the industrial issues, the delays in some programs, the offshoring of others and the T31e programs all start to make more sense.

[ArmChairCivvy]

the realisation that, if all the programs followed the timescales then planned, that the BAE shipbuilding workforce would peak at around 16,000 in c. 2009 and then decline to c. 4000 in 2023. Personally, I feel that attempting to maintain a constant, highly skilled, workforce in a central specialist yard and to use commercial facilities for the "lower-skilled metal-bashing" jobs to handle the surges is a more sensible approach

It all makes sense; except the outcomes.
- also, the Defence Industrial Strategy update has been a long time coming. Looks like they are now dividing it to ships&boats; air combat... and, may be, one day, land

[SKB]

QHM Portsmouth says HMS Forth (P222) should arrive at Spithead at around 08:00 Saturday morning (24/2/2018), but won't berth until Monday (26/2/2018) at the South Railway Jetty at 09:00.

Saturday: https://www.royalnavy.mod.uk/qhm/portsm ... 24/02/2018
Sunday: https://www.royalnavy.mod.uk/qhm/portsm ... 25/02/2018
Monday: https://www.royalnavy.mod.uk/qhm/portsm ... 26/02/2018

[SKB]

According to AIS, HMS Forth arrived in The Solent around 15:00 on Friday (23/2/2018) afternoon.
http://www.marinetraffic.com/en/ais/hom ... .7/zoom:11

[SKB]

[hovematlot]

HMS Forth live on Facebook entering HMNB Portsmouth

https://www.facebook.com/HMNBPortsmouth ... 518561688/

[SKB]

HMS Forth leaving Glasgow.


And arriving at Portsmouth on Monday 26th February 2018.

[SKB]

[Aethulwulf]

Interview with new crew of HMS Forth can be found at

https://www.forces.net/news/exclusive-b ... ewest-ship

[donald_of_tokyo]

The ship captain is a commander, not Lt. commander. Because she is first of the class shop? Interesting.

[donald_of_tokyo]

https://www.forces.net/news/exclusive-b ... ewest-ship

Very nice movie showing within HMS Forth, attached to the already documented information.
I spotted,
- The flight control room, with window as shown in 0:30-35.
- The ~50 Soldiers room, shown around 0:40-50 is also interesting
- Around 1:55, the voice says "just 34 crew", but I read 36 elsewhere. "Total of 60 crews" in rotation, is the same elsewhere.

Anyway, this is also one of the best ships in RN fleet. Capable to 320 days a year at sea, she is a specialist on patrol, nearly twice efficient than any escorts. Not bad. Looking forward to see her deployed on Falklands Islands.

[R686]

https://www.forces.net/news/exclusive-b ... ewest-ship

Very nice movie showing within HMS Forth, attached to the already documented information.
I spotted,
- The flight control room, with window as shown in 0:30-35.
- The ~50 Soldiers room, shown around 0:40-50 is also interesting
- Around 1:55, the voice says "just 34 crew", but I read 36 elsewhere. "Total of 60 crews" in rotation, is the same elsewhere.

Anyway, this is also one of the best ships in RN fleet. Capable to 320 days a year at sea, she is a specialist on patrol, nearly twice efficient than any escorts. Not bad. Looking forward to see her deployed on Falklands Islands.

So they are expecting to be out about 281 days a year, going to be worked pretty hard.


"We do four weeks at sea, two weeks at home and thats planned for the entire year."

[shark bait]

Its like survey vessels, the crew is split into 3, rotating 2 at sea, 1 at home. Sounds like a good system.

[The Armchair Soldier]

The naming ceremony for HMS TRENT has taken place. She is to be delivered to the RN, along with MEDWAY, by the end of the year. Images from BAE Systems.

[donald_of_tokyo]

So they are expecting to be out about 281 days a year, going to be worked pretty hard.

"We do four weeks at sea, two weeks at home and thats planned for the entire year."

I think it means 206 days at sea, 104 days at home. Another 45 days, when the ship is in port, I do not know how the crews are going in.

In case of HMS Clyde in FIGS task, I think the whole crew rotates in a half a year.

[The Armchair Soldier]

EXCLUSIVE: Behind The Scenes Of The Royal Navy's Newest Ship
https://www.forces.net/news/exclusive-b ... ewest-ship

[SKB]

[Gabriele]

There is still hope for the Batch 1s:

Guto Bebb:
The Ministry of Defence has been allocated £12.7 million in 2018-19 for essential EU exit preparations. This will fund preserving three Off-Shore Patrol Vessels, should they be needed to control and enforce UK waters and fisheries. It also includes some EU Exit preparedness funding for UK defence bases in Europe. As with all HMT Reserve funding, finalised allocations will be confirmed at Supplementary Estimates
2018-19 in early 2019.

http://qnadailyreport.blob.core.windows ... -03-16.pdf …

Security Strategy chapter on UK waters said to include a committment for many more patrols, so, maybe... if not all three, maybe one or two.

HMS Clyde is out due to being a leased vessel. Contract expires this year, i believe, and so she'll go and seek a new customer. The Batch 1s, purchased for 39 million back in 2012, are MOD owned.

[dmereifield]

There is still hope for the Batch 1s:

Guto Bebb:
The Ministry of Defence has been allocated £12.7 million in 2018-19 for essential EU exit preparations. This will fund preserving three Off-Shore Patrol Vessels, should they be needed to control and enforce UK waters and fisheries. It also includes some EU Exit preparedness funding for UK defence bases in Europe. As with all HMT Reserve funding, finalised allocations will be confirmed at Supplementary Estimates
2018-19 in early 2019.

http://qnadailyreport.blob.core.windows ... -03-16.pdf …

Security Strategy chapter on UK waters said to include a committment for many more patrols, so, maybe... if not all three, maybe one or two.

HMS Clyde is out due to being a leased vessel. Contract expires this year, i believe, and so she'll go and seek a new customer. The Batch 1s, purchased for 39 million back in 2012, are MOD owned.

Thanks Gabriele, interesting stuff, fingers crossed....

[Poiuytrewq]

I have to admit, I didn't see that coming. It makes a lot of sense to do it but HMG has been a bit short on common sense for a while now.

[andrew98]

Nothing common about sense!

[Pseudo]

There is still hope for the Batch 1s:

Guto Bebb:
The Ministry of Defence has been allocated £12.7 million in 2018-19 for essential EU exit preparations. This will fund preserving three Off-Shore Patrol Vessels, should they be needed to control and enforce UK waters and fisheries. It also includes some EU Exit preparedness funding for UK defence bases in Europe. As with all HMT Reserve funding, finalised allocations will be confirmed at Supplementary Estimates
2018-19 in early 2019.

http://qnadailyreport.blob.core.windows ... -03-16.pdf …

Security Strategy chapter on UK waters said to include a committment for many more patrols, so, maybe... if not all three, maybe one or two.

HMS Clyde is out due to being a leased vessel. Contract expires this year, i believe, and so she'll go and seek a new customer. The Batch 1s, purchased for 39 million back in 2012, are MOD owned.

Thanks Gabriele, interesting stuff, fingers crossed....

Given that it looks almost certain that the current fisheries and border regimes will continue until the end of 2020 and possibly longer, I'm not sure how much faith I'd put much faith in there being a requirement to retain the three Batch Ones.

[RichardIC]

At face value it appears to be no more than funding for one financial year - and that’s possibly just the accounting cost of not deleting the assets.