River Class (OPV) (RN)

[ArmChairCivvy]

suspect that any visible changes will be at the lower end of the spectrum

- even so much as to being invisible

cover the stern arc

- common problem for singletons

a USN study that determined

- a newer one now available (as per earlier post)

implementing the second ammunition feed and acquiring 30mm airburst

- a good idea despite the fact that the utility of airburst rounds - even against the softest of targets, like opposing troops in defilade - declines rapidly with the smaller 'pay load' as you go down from 57/ 40 mm
- the 'Swimmer' rounds being specialist sub-caliber penetrators, they do (probably) not come cheaply and therefore only switching to that feed when needed is definitely a good idea

[Caribbean]

the utility of airburst rounds - even against the softest of targets, like opposing troops in defilade - declines rapidly with the smaller 'pay load'

Indeed - I've read that the 40mm Bushmaster round has approximately four times the "area of effect", when compared to the 30mm.

[Tempest414]

Anyone know what the costs would be for fitting the twin feed and buying the air burst rounds against fitting a 40mm gun on the same mount and using 3P that will come into service

[ArmChairCivvy]

fitting a 40mm gun on the same mount

Is this a real-life option?

[Tempest414]

I don't know that why I asked the question what would be the cheapest option once you have bought the twin feed system and then bought the and put in place training and logistics for a new round over buying a new gun and plugging into what will be a live training and logistics stream for the round

[donald_of_tokyo]

Stunning!! HMS Forth, guide.

- The wardroom, senior rates and junior rates messes looks great for a ship manned by 36 crew at any moment.
- around 2:25, walking through the engine room. Interesting there are small passage-way along the engine room.
- around 2:46, we can see the "foot" of the 15t crane. I personally think, by re-arranging this room and flyco-rooms, she can have small hangar to carry 4-5 compact UAVs, such as Puma AE (*1).

[donald_of_tokyo]

Inspired by the film, I found good example of equipments to be added to River B2s.

1: Puma 3AE UAV. Its web-page is great to see. At least when you want to identify targets detected by ship's radar (or info from allies), this Puma UAV looks good enough.
https://www.avinc.com/tuas/puma-ae

2: For any up-arming issue, the company "AeroVironment"-'s SWITCHBLADE micro missile, also looks great (although it has some overlap with LMM).
https://www.avinc.com/tms/switchblade

Although (2) the missile itself is very "fun" to see, what is the most important is (1) the UAV. As AV's Puma 3AE has 2.5 hour endurance, not short, but not long, I think carrying 4-5 of them to be used in rotation will be needed. Also, as it is light-weight UAV, I think it shall be primarily used for "confirmation" tasks (identifying the target), not so much as a "surveillance" tasks (finding the target).

As this UAV is now tested in RN 700X, I think (or hope) it is likely to come soon.

https://www.royalnavy.mod.uk/news-and-l ... 00205-puma
https://www.royalnavy.mod.uk/news-and-l ... s-squadron

[Ron5]

fitting a 40mm gun on the same mount

Is this a real-life option?

Yes according the the MSI-DS website.

Now I don't know if that means a full fat 40mm with programmable ammo. I suspect it doesn't.

[Ron5]

Stunning!! HMS Forth, guide.

- The wardroom, senior rates and junior rates messes looks great for a ship manned by 36 crew at any moment.
- around 2:25, walking through the engine room. Interesting there are small passage-way along the engine room.
- around 2:46, we can see the "foot" of the 15t crane. I personally think, by re-arranging this room and flyco-rooms, she can have small hangar to carry 4-5 compact UAVs, such as Puma AE (*1).

Uh oh, new Navy PR for Topman to take a shot at

[Caribbean]

fitting a 40mm gun on the same mount and using 3P that will come into service

There is a 40mm upgrade kit for the Bushmaster II that can be mounted on the same same mount, but it uses Supershot 40mm ammunition, which I doubt is compatible with the Bofors P3. There is, however a Supershot 40mm programmable air-burst round in development (as well as for the 30mm).

[ArmChairCivvy]

I suspect it doesn't.

Me, too

I doubt is compatible with the Bofors P3

Me, too
- we could get two 40 mm systems into navy service, requiring different rounds

[Ron5]

I suspect it doesn't.

Me, too

I doubt is compatible with the Bofors P3

Me, too
- we could get two 40 mm systems into navy service, requiring different rounds

Or ditch them both and go with the Bushmaster 50mm

[Caribbean]

Or ditch them both and go with the Bushmaster 50mm

That's an interesting one - there appears to be two forms of the SuperShot 50mm - one is a much more powerful weapon (which would likely need a new mount), but there seems to be a second, which is based on the Bushmaster III 35mm round (50mm, necked down to 35mm). The second is an unnecked version of the 35mm case, carrying the same propellant load as the 35mm (so probably mountable in theASCG mount), but with the larger projectile of the 50mm (semi-telescoped, so the whole round is shorter than the "full size" 50mm round). I'm not sure how mature the design is, or whether it's gone into service yet, however.

[ArmChairCivvy]

carrying the same propellant load

+

but with the larger projectile of the 50mm

Would that have range implications? The whole idea is to deter/ engage speedboats before they get within range for launching their ATGW procured from a second-hand shop/

[ArmChairCivvy]

BTW: the naval Bushmaster shoots much further than the one for AFVs... what's the trick?

[Caribbean]

Would that have range implications?

Undoubtedly, but I've seen no estimates of the practical impact on range. Presumably that is balanced against the much larger payload. I suspect that it is really intended for light platforms that couldn't take a larger recoil, but would like to "improve the end effect"

[ArmChairCivvy]

really intended for light platforms that couldn't take a larger recoil, but would like to "improve the end effect"

in one word ; IFVs
- more words, to improve their self-defence... but they are "not an island" whereas a patrol vessel needs to factor in being on its own altogether

[Caribbean]

in one word ; IFVs
- more words, to improve their self-defence... but they are "not an island" whereas a patrol vessel needs to factor in being on its own altogether

I think the USA has specified the larger Supershot 50 for it's new generation of IFVs, I'm not sure there is an existing requirement for the smaller variant, whcih seems to have originally been a "wildcat" cartridge , that has been picked up by the manufacturers.

On commonality grounds, it would be an odd decision to go with the 40mm upgrade just for the RB2s, but might make sense if all the ASCG mounts were uppgraded, across the whole RN.

[Tempest414]

in one word ; IFVs
- more words, to improve their self-defence... but they are "not an island" whereas a patrol vessel needs to factor in being on its own altogether

I think the USA has specified the larger Supershot 50 for it's new generation of IFVs, I'm not sure there is an existing requirement for the smaller variant, whcih seems to have originally been a "wildcat" cartridge , that has been picked up by the manufacturers.

On commonality grounds, it would be an odd decision to go with the 40mm upgrade just for the RB2s, but might make sense if all the ASCG mounts were uppgraded, across the whole RN.

the thing is we have gone for BAE 40 Mk-4 with 3P on the type 31 so to bring in another 40mm gun and round would be mad for me when it comes to up gunning the B2's it needs to be all in with 40mm or 57mm as fitted to type 31 or stay with the 30mm and maybe add LMM

[Caribbean]

If the money is there, I agree, but I suspect that any upgrade to the B2s will be financed out of the rounding errors on other projects.

[donald_of_tokyo]

From ""

Really stunning, isn't it? Great photographer (of course HMS Spey herself is great).

[Ron5]

@Caribbean

I was referring to the XM913 50mm Bushmaster.

In the picture, I think it's the Apache gun in the back, the 30mm in the middle and the XM913 at the front. All with ammo.



The perspective makes it look bigger than it is, but it is big.

[ArmChairCivvy]

That's a good design: weight growth by a third and turret intrusion grows by just over two inches
- the 'good old' Bofors 40 mm cut any IFV turret (on the inside) into two (less than) halves... far from ideal

[bobp]

Stunning!! HMS Forth, guide.

Awesome never saw this when it was posted.

[donald_of_tokyo]

HMS Medway to support British Virgin Islands' border control is just good. But what is the problem here? It looks like BVI governor took very strong action.

PS How about other dependencies?