River Class (OPV) (RN)
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Re: River Class (OPV) (RN)
Which is why I have said that the B2 Rivers are all that we will have, until then!
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Re: River Class (OPV) (RN)
10 T31 and 8 T26 (and 6 T45)? Spunds optimisticScimitar54 wrote:When the B1’s are retired, the B2’s will be brought home. The T31’s will replace the forward deployed B2’s and they are likely to acquire a bespoke weapons fit to suit their deployment and operational location. Second batch of T31 to be not less than 5 (with enhanced weapons fit), unless there is also to be a third batch. The B2 Rivers are all that we have to fulfil the Forward based roles until then. They may well acquire the odd extra bit of kit as a consequence.
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Re: River Class (OPV) (RN)
If you only ask for what you think you might (at best) be given, you will NEVER get what you actually need!
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Re: River Class (OPV) (RN)
Best thing to do it's forget all this forwarding nonsense and transfer all the Rivers to a new law enforcement HM Coastguard.
The Navy has lots of issues, and does not need to create even more problems for itself, so let a coastguard deal with maritime security, and let the Navy focus on its core activities.
The Navy has lots of issues, and does not need to create even more problems for itself, so let a coastguard deal with maritime security, and let the Navy focus on its core activities.
@LandSharkUK
Re: River Class (OPV) (RN)
I certainly think fishery protection is a complete anachronism. The RN shouldn't be measuring nets.shark bait wrote:Best thing to do it's forget all this forwarding nonsense and transfer all the Rivers to a new law enforcement HM Coastguard.
The Navy has lots of issues, and does not need to create even more problems for itself, so let a coastguard deal with maritime security, and let the Navy focus on its core activities.
The main issue for me would be whether they are fishing (no pun intended) in the same recruitment pool as the navy.
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Re: River Class (OPV) (RN)
Why spend more money creating yet another department, when Fisheries is only part of their role, which includes surveillance, training and acting as the FRE.shark bait wrote:Best thing to do it's forget all this forwarding nonsense and transfer all the Rivers to a new law enforcement HM Coastguard.
The Navy has lots of issues, and does not need to create even more problems for itself, so let a coastguard deal with maritime security, and l
I think tensions over “fish” are going to be increasing and a role where the RN is able to handle any flash points much better than a small civilian department.RichardIC wrote:I certainly think fishery protection is a complete anachronism. The RN shouldn't be measuring nets.
”We have no eternal allies, and we have no perpetual enemies. Our interests are eternal and perpetual, and those interests it is our duty to follow." - Lord Palmerston
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Re: River Class (OPV) (RN)
Warships will be better able to handle any other “Fishy” activities that they may accidentally discover whilst carrying out their Fisheries Protection Role. e,g. Gun Running, People Trafficking and Smuggling.
Re: River Class (OPV) (RN)
It's a law enforcement matter. It doesn't need military involvement.Repulse wrote:I think tensions over “fish” are going to be increasing and a role where the RN is able to handle any flash points much better than a small civilian department.
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Re: River Class (OPV) (RN)
If you really believe that, then by the same definition, why have QRA for incursions into UK air space, or an Army to defend against invasion. A raid on UK fish stocks IS an attack on the assets of this country and individuals who commit such offences (with or without political support from a foreign power) are highly likely to be committing other offences as well. Or perhaps you think that unarmed policemen still deter armed robbers as well. Get real!
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Re: River Class (OPV) (RN)
Because the Navy is already in a shit state, and it does not need more problems caused by a new Brexit border. They should outsource all the law enforcement stuff to someone else.Repulse wrote:Why spend more money creating yet another department
This like the RAF outsourcing search and rescue, it's not a core activity, so get rid and focus on what matters.
@LandSharkUK
Re: River Class (OPV) (RN)
You are aware that MaaF actually pay for this service?
These ships give a shed load of sea time and excellent opportunities for Sailors and Officers to learn.
Yes they will be busier with no deal. However so will the small numbers of boarder force cutters and you don’t see the Home Office rushing to buy more.
These ships give a shed load of sea time and excellent opportunities for Sailors and Officers to learn.
Yes they will be busier with no deal. However so will the small numbers of boarder force cutters and you don’t see the Home Office rushing to buy more.
Re: River Class (OPV) (RN)
With the work goes the fundingshark bait wrote:They should outsource all the law enforcement stuff to someone else.
”We have no eternal allies, and we have no perpetual enemies. Our interests are eternal and perpetual, and those interests it is our duty to follow." - Lord Palmerston
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Re: River Class (OPV) (RN)
Maybe, and they get a streamlined organisation. Struggling organisations need to focus on what matters most, not counting fish.
@LandSharkUK
Re: River Class (OPV) (RN)
Ok, the RN loses 3-4 OPVs and 200 personnel, what else do you expect to happen?shark bait wrote:Maybe, and they get a streamlined organisation. Struggling organisations need to focus on what matters most, not counting fish.
”We have no eternal allies, and we have no perpetual enemies. Our interests are eternal and perpetual, and those interests it is our duty to follow." - Lord Palmerston
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Re: River Class (OPV) (RN)
They wouldn't loose any personnel, and they can get those laid up ships back to sea, plus other efficiency benefits thanks to a streamlined structure.
@LandSharkUK
- ArmChairCivvy
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Re: River Class (OPV) (RN)
Out of interest (as we are not talking any of those with the RFA), how many of those are not either in the queu for power "upgrades" or T23 LIFEX?shark bait wrote:they can get those laid up ships back to sea
Ever-lasting truths: Multi-year budgets/ planning by necessity have to address the painful questions; more often than not the Either-Or prevails over Both-And.
If everyone is thinking the same, then someone is not thinking (attributed to Patton)
If everyone is thinking the same, then someone is not thinking (attributed to Patton)
Re: River Class (OPV) (RN)
That’s all well and good but normally the RN OPVs are only called when armed vessels and personal are deemed to be needed, so in the this new set up what takes there place ?shark bait wrote:They wouldn't loose any personnel, and they can get those laid up ships back to sea, plus other efficiency benefits thanks to a streamlined structure.
There’s also the question of what becomes the new FRE ? Most of this time now days this is done by the OPVs, will we really keep a T31 at least in the EEZ just for that role ?
Then what happens to the training progression that the OPVs are used for ?
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Re: River Class (OPV) (RN)
Use a coastguard vessel.
This is the whole point, the RN do not have to do all that, they can streamline their operations considerably and focus on the unique value streams.
This is the whole point, the RN do not have to do all that, they can streamline their operations considerably and focus on the unique value streams.
@LandSharkUK
Re: River Class (OPV) (RN)
At the moment we don’t have the vessels to form an adequate coast guard so would need funding, also as pointed out if the RN work the role they lose the funding.shark bait wrote:Use a coastguard vessel.
This is the whole point, the RN do not have to do all that, they can streamline their operations considerably and focus on the unique value streams.
Re: River Class (OPV) (RN)
Surely it’s the role of the RN to maintain the security and integrity of UK territorial waters from all forms of illegal activity, just like they do in overseas UK territories of the Falklands and Caribbean using a similar vessel type.
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Re: River Class (OPV) (RN)
There's enough vessels for a coastguard. The Navy and border force both have 9 patrol boats, plus the other agencies contributing to British maritime security.
Yes it's currently the UK is the role of the Navy, but in Germany and America domestic maritime security of the job the coastguard. This enables the navy to focus on their highest value tasks. The Brits would benefit from a similar system, allowing the RN to focus it's core roles and using them to protect British interests globally.
The Royal Navy is a finite and very expensive resource, so use it where it has the biggest effect.
Yes it's currently the UK is the role of the Navy, but in Germany and America domestic maritime security of the job the coastguard. This enables the navy to focus on their highest value tasks. The Brits would benefit from a similar system, allowing the RN to focus it's core roles and using them to protect British interests globally.
The Royal Navy is a finite and very expensive resource, so use it where it has the biggest effect.
@LandSharkUK