Tide Class Tankers (MARS) (RFA)

[The Armchair Soldier]

Today we welcome RFA TIDESURGE to the UK for the first time, as she arrives in Falmouth ahead of her customisation work, which supports 300 local jobs.

[The Armchair Soldier]

RFA TIDESPRING in the midst of it all during Exercise Joint Warrior:

Found the image on Twitter

[SKB]

[Gabriele]

Note most important passage in that news piece (assuming it is accurate):

Measuring just over 200 meters in length and with a top speed of 27 knots, RFA Tidespring is a welcome addition to the fleet.

[ArmChairCivvy]

Exactly what a "fleet" tanker is all about:
- can keep up
- not @18, not @ 20 ... but close to 28 (you are not doing replenishment during combat ops; but to be able to get to the general area, and "be around" could be a virtue - that has been designed in).

[Ron5]

Or go get more and be back pronto.

Not sure why speed is it's most important characteristic tho'. I could think of a few higher up the list.

[SKB]

....so that a ship at speed and in a hurry, but needing fuel, stays at speed and doesn't need to slow down to a (sea) snails pace for RAS and delay its progress to its destination.

[Ron5]

....so that a ship at speed and in a hurry, but needing fuel, stays at speed and doesn't need to slow down to a (sea) snails pace for RAS and delay its progress to its destination.

CONREP at 27 knots. Sure.

[whitelancer]

Their are no front lines at sea, so where do you locate your supply ships? IMHO the best place for the RFA ships is with those they are supporting. The threat today does not come from big guns on warships but from the air and underwater so your replenishment ships are in no greater danger with your warships than if they were kept back (wherever back is at sea), and only called forward when required. In addition you would have to provide additional escorts both ASW & AAW. Where are they going to come from? Far better to concentrate your resources. Of course the problem has been that the support shipping has been relatively slow, so if the Tide class is capable of 27 knots they could keep with a Carrier Task Force a very good thing in my opinion.

[ArmChairCivvy]

would have to provide additional escorts both ASW & AAW. Where are they going to come from? Far better to concentrate your resources

Quite. The division to Fleet tankers and others (supporting singletons, which mode of deployment seems to be fading in importance) is gone
- save for the one that does our (and other NATO) bases; and the replacement of which is shrouded in mystery... new build or another charter?

[SKB]

Article: "RFA Tiderace remembers sailor from first RFA ship"
https://www.royalnavy.mod.uk/news-and-l ... -remembers

[Ron5]

Their are no front lines at sea, so where do you locate your supply ships? IMHO the best place for the RFA ships is with those they are supporting. The threat today does not come from big guns on warships but from the air and underwater so your replenishment ships are in no greater danger with your warships than if they were kept back (wherever back is at sea), and only called forward when required. In addition you would have to provide additional escorts both ASW & AAW. Where are they going to come from? Far better to concentrate your resources. Of course the problem has been that the support shipping has been relatively slow, so if the Tide class is capable of 27 knots they could keep with a Carrier Task Force a very good thing in my opinion.

Kinda like having supply trucks right with the Challengers eh?

Obviously it totally depends on situation but RFA type supply ships are typically kept well down threat and away from the carriers. Just like supply trucks are kept well back from the tanks.

[Scimitar54]

Supply ships must leave the ships they have been supplying in order to obtain further supplies, and then RV with those same ships to continue to supply them during a protracted campaign.

[whitelancer]

Kinda like having supply trucks right with the Challengers eh?
Obviously it totally depends on situation but RFA type supply ships are typically kept well down threat and away from the carriers. Just like supply trucks are kept well back from the tanks.

While you are right and supply ships are usually placed down threat it doesn't mean they are secure, they will need protecting. In the Falklands War the RN got away with providing very limited protection to the TRALA, against a better equiped and competent opponent they may not get away with it in the future. Any escorts you provide for your logistis shipping obviosly reduces the numbers available for offensive action
or protecting your Carriers. You also have the problem that at some point your resupply ships have to meet up with your combat ships, which means either withdrawing your combat ships or moving your resupply ships forward, with of course the necessary escorts. Much better to keep your logistics shipping close at hand where they can be properly protected and can supply the needs of the Task Force when ever convinent.


As far as operations on land are concered, their will often be a front line, so to reach your logitics elements an enemy must first get passed your combat troops so they are relativly secure. Its also worth pointing out that first line logistis elements are not very far from the combat units they are supporting. In situations where their is effectivly no front line, considerable effort has to go into protecting lines of comunications. Afganistan for instance. It would not be unusally to have your supply trucks right with the Challengers. Just as the US Army took supply trucks along with them when they first entered Bagdad.

[ArmChairCivvy]

In situations where their is effectivly no front line, considerable effort has to go into protecting lines of comunications.

US Stryker bdes are planned to operate in such a diffuse/ dispersed way... so that you only need to protect the embedded supply unit (not the lines, which might be far more manpower intensive).

But now we digress - so back to ships

[Ron5]

I think we've all just agreed that it all depends on the circumstances and that supply vehicles & supply ships do not have to mirror the main combatants performance characteristics (can trucks keep up with Challengers cross country?).

Regarding the mantra that there's no front line at sea: maybe true but there are areas that are lower threat than others. For example, being out of range of shore based bombers.

So once again, the fact that the Waves can go 27 knots is somewhat interesting but not particularly vital to the ships doing their job. I suspect that speed has more to do with the design's commercial antecedents than anything else.

[shark bait]

What commercial tankers bez around at 27 knots?

The tankers are designed to keep up with the carrier, so its no surprise the tankers 27 is very close to the 28 the carrier does.

[Ron5]

You'll find quite a lot of commercial shipping routinely cruise at those speeds.

You should also check the speeds of US fleet oilers.

[easydiver]

Looks like RFA Tideforce is now on her way: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ModsPkXpAwI

[SKB]

Video from post above ^

^ RFA Tideforce (A139) in Japan

[SKB]

^ RFA Tidesurge (A138) has gone into drydock at Falmouth.

[Aethulwulf]

Looks like RFA Tideforce, last of the 4, is waiting to enter Panama canal.

[SKB]

RFA Tiderace (A137) was dedicated today in Portland Harbour and has also joined Twitter....

[benny14]

"Customisation work, including the installation of communications equipment and defensive systems, is sustaining hundreds of jobs in A&P Falmouth, while the wider Tide class programme is sustaining further jobs at 26 other companies throughout the UK."

"RFA Tidespring is already in service, with RFA Tiderace due to join her in September, while RFA Tidesurge has now completed her customisation programme and is about to embark on Capability Assessment Trials."

"Work to customise Tideforce is expected to take several months, with the ship then due to enter service in 2019."

https://des.mod.uk/royal-navy-rfa-tidef ... omisation/

[SKB]

then....