UK Defence Forum

I notice the model in the Navy lookout picture has 16 launch tubes. Wish that was the case.....

Should've used Christmas wrapping paper...

SKB wrote:


Should've used Christmas wrapping paper...

The Reactor Pressure Vessel (two loop?)

NAO 8th January report on the incompetence of the MOD project management of the Dreadnought nuclear infrastructure resulting in overspend of £1.35 billion over budget and delays of between 1.7 to 6.3 years. NAO suggesting MoD maybe correcting their ways, but why did they not from start of project?

A. MENSA: a new nuclear warhead assembly and disassembly facility, valued at £1.8 billion, at the Atomic Weapons Establishment (AWE)-operated site in Burghfield (Reading), 146% over budget
B. Core production capability (CPC) facilities: upgraded facilities, costing at least £474 million, at the Rolls Royce-operated site in Raynesway (Derby) to produce the latest nuclear reactor core designs, 45% over budget.
C. Primary build facility: new facilities at the BAE Systems-operated dockyard in Barrow-in-Furness (Cumbria), costing £240 million to upgrade aging facilities and support improved submarine construction techniques, 116% over budget.

It seems MoD have never seem to learnt from their past failures, #1 golden rule is that the design must be 100% complete before you start build, not 95% and all kit available off the shelf, so NO new unproven tech. NAO report "inappropriate" contracts with external contractors and beginning building work on facilities before the designs were "sufficiently mature" has added £647 million to costs" (eg it started building the new CPC facilities without a clear specification of the core design and a full understanding of how the facility would be used. The initial facility subsequently turned out to be too small, contributing to the £146 million total project cost increase), also highlighted a lack of technical skills within the MOD. The way that the MoD set up the contracts also means that it, and not its contractors, must foot the bill for these cost increases as it did not share out the financial risks.

No wonder Osbourne earmarked an additional £10bn contingency fund in addition to the £31 Billion for the capital costs of Successor/Dreadnought.
https://www.nao.org.uk/wp-content/uploa ... -sites.pdf

NickC wrote:No wonder Osbourne earmarked an additional £10bn contingency fund in addition to the £31 Billion for the capital costs of Successor/Dreadnought.

He was planning to have the Delivery Agency under the Treasury (where it now ain't)... but in that way one can make sure that "failure is NOT an option [that will need to be considered ]".

Take another 'Alice in Wonderland' journey of the accounts and you will find under "Provisions" that the majority of the Department’s provisions relate to decommissioning the Defence Nuclear Programme, costed at £11.4 billion as at 31 March 2019.

These costs are significant, and with more than £10 billion of the total due more than five years in the future, are uncertain – given the inherent uncertainty associated with long-term liabilities. The nuclear decommissioning provision has decreased by £7.4 billion during 2018-19, mostly due to a change in the HM Treasury discount rate used to value the provisions. Only £147 million of the balance was utilised [for work done] in 2018-19

ArmChairCivvy wrote:He was planning to have the Delivery Agency under the Treasury (where it now ain't)... but in that way one can make sure that "failure is NOT an option [that will need to be considered ]".

This shows the lack of forward planning that the treasury spending driven SSDR 10 put the nuclear program into the core defence budget. rather than in a separate budget that had direct treasury oversite..

NickC wrote:C. Primary build facility: new facilities at the BAE Systems-operated dockyard in Barrow-in-Furness (Cumbria), costing £240 million to upgrade aging facilities and support improved submarine construction techniques, 116% over budget.

Part of the overspend in barrow was due to legacy shipbuilding on the site. That caused delays and disposal costs that were not budgeted for. The driving requirement was the new reactor with the inclusion of the heat exchangers within the reactor shielding (upgraded safety requirement.). This required a larger ring manufacturing plant than the astute's needed. With additional alterations to the Devonshire hall also required as the increase in size of the hull. With hindsight the tresuary should reappraise its yearly budget constraints. By multiple year budgeting allowing forward loading of programs allowing speeder production reducing costs per unit. We could have had a eighth SSN rather than seven. Had this been done in the past.

Thales wins £330m contract for Sonar and Periscope systems :-

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/330- ... submarines

Lockheed awarded additional USN $601 million contract 19th March for Trident II D5 Production & Deployed Systems Support, UK funding $93 million, all work to be carried out in US.

UK percentage ~15%, potential overall contract value ~$1.3 billion, completion date Sep 2024

BreakingDefense quoting USN Rear Adm. Scott Pappano saying coronavirus has delayed the Columbia SSBN, Virginia SSN and Dreadnought SSBN programmes caused when less than 30 percent of workers at UK based Babcock Marine showed up, now back to 90%, which resulted in delayed construction and welding of the boat’s missile tubes by several months (BWXT weld the missile tubes).

From <https://breakingdefense.com/2020/06/cov ... 1574325418>

Babcock Awarded SLBM Tube Contract Extension By Electric Boat

Babcock, the Aerospace and Defence company, has been awarded a multimillion pound contract extension to manufacture a further 18 tactical Missile Tube Assemblies (MTAs) for General Dynamics Electric Boat (GDEB).

It is part of the Common Missile Compartment (CMC) project for the UK Dreadnought class and US Columbia class submarine programmes, and will support more than 200 Advanced Manufacturing jobs at Babcock’s Rosyth and Bristol facilities.

https://www.navalnews.com/naval-news/20 ... tric-boat/

So the missile tubes are built here in UK, shipped to the USA then put in the CMC compartment. I always thought everything was done in the US.

bobp wrote:So the missile tubes are built here in UK, shipped to the USA then put in the CMC compartment. I always thought everything was done in the US.

I was under the impression that the Trident missile four tube modules were manufactured and welded in US by BWXT, faulty welds found in 2018 threatening Columbia's tight timeline, cost of rectification $27 million, think Babcock are responsible for the sophisticated missile launch kit installed in tubes.

Trident missile launch tubes used on Columbia and Dreadnought plus USN Virginia SSNs for Tomahawks, two shorter tube variant towards bow to free up torpedo tubes in Blocks III & IV. The new Block V will have ~80 foot mid hull plug inserted for additional four tube module, will increase Block V ~2,400t to ~ 10,200t displacement. Each tube can take 7 Tomahawks, in future USN planning to fit the Conventional Prompt Strike hypersonic missile/Next Generation Land Attack Weapon under test, will be fewer imissiles in number as NGLAW dia 34.5" compared to Tomahawk's 20.4", and the proposed nuclear warhead variant.

NickC wrote: think Babcock are responsible for the sophisticated missile launch kit installed in tubes.

That makes sense, the article is misleading

House of Commons report on the progress of the Dreadnought class :-

https://www.defense-aerospace.com/artic ... rrent.html

(BAE Systems Maritime) 6th July 2020

'Built with pride in Barrow'- the latest piece of Dreadnought makes a move. Four Dreadnought-Class submarines will be built in Barrow to replace the Vanguard-Class that are currently in service with the Royal Navy.

New video released by BAE. Some of the fast facts transcribed although I'm pretty sure it's already known:

• 153.6 m length (longer than Vanguard).
• 17,200 tonnes (the largest submarine ever built by the RN).
• 130 crew (includes 3 chefs and 1 doctor).
• The first RN submarine to be built with separate female crew quarters, toilets and washing facilities.
• The first RN submarine with a classroom / study area set aside.
• Innovative new lighting to simulate night and day — a first for a RN submarine.

153.6m long?
Thats as long as 12 London buses, or half a Palace of Westminster, or half a QEC carrier....

Three chefs, class rooms, gym, swimming pools & women???

Where do I sign up?

Will the crew be medicated to reduce their Libido?

Lord Jim wrote:Will the crew be medicated to reduce their Libido?

Does Naafi tea still have the bromide in it?

Not sure but there was a rumour that the compo chicken curry did!?! That said, didn't stop my lot out on a night out in Clatty's.

Telegraph - "Ministry of Defence mulls takeover of nuclear steel submarine maker // Sheffield Forgemasters is reportedly in talks with defence chiefs about a takeover to protect steel production for Britain's nuclear subs"

Wonder if the crew will have to hot bunk ? hopefully being bigger with less ICBM's there will be more space for the crews comfort.