UK Defence Forum

Lord Jim wrote:Warspite and valiant, and how about adding Nelson and Rodney to the mix.

That will be 10 bln extra, Sir, as the first four are going for 40 bln...

Destruction, Devastation and the fourth (stretched) one being a sub class, Armageddon.

Scimitar54 wrote: Armageddon

to carry more than the 4 missiles on the others?

All you need with a roulette wheel to determine the targets.

Whilst the name Valiant has a proud Royal Navy history and is far from being a bad choice I’m not sure it’d be on my shortlist of four based on fame and historical resonance. Surely Invincible, Conqueror, Warspite, Warrior or Temeraire* would all rank above Valiant in the public conscience and that’s just off the top of my head.

I still like Devastation. It’s also the battleship on the ‘England’s Glory’ matchboxes I believe and surely that’s reason enough to pick it

* HMS Temeraire might actually be in current use as the name for a training facility building.

Digger22 wrote:I thought the Orions were the first 'Super Dreadnoughts'

HMS Orion. I like that a lot.

Shoot for the stars and all that........

Not so sure, makes me think the next one would be HMS Sierra

Simon82 wrote:HMS Temeraire might actually be in current use as the name for a training facility building.

HMS Temeraire is the current name of the RN School of Physical Training in Portsmouth.
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@50.79470 ... !1e3?hl=en

Maybe we should name them after the last four major players in CND.

this is just my top 3

HMS Warspite
HMS King George VI
HMS Howe

I mean, we all know that "Valiant" sounding noble and 'good' is a large part behind it.

Good luck getting "Devastation" past a massive anti-nuclear outcry using that name for slogans and "examples" of it being "a system just to murder millions of people".

Not saying I disagree with their ruling, sticking to the names you can't turn into an anti-navy movement is a prudent move.

If we must not offend anyone, even down to what our navy's ships are called then maybe we should stop naming them at all. Really these people must need to be "offended" more severely and more often, to build up their immunity to it.

Scimitar54 wrote:more often, to build up their immunity to it

We are only taking baby steps "HMS Agincourt Astute-class nuclear-powered fleet submarine under construction for the Royal Navy"

The seventh in her class, so if ever there will be the 8th, it has "hereby" been named Crécy
- nevermind about the "A" missing
- as there are "rule takers", "rule makers"... and "rule breakers"

Usual process would have been for the French to build and name such an SSBN, and for us to Re-name her after taking her as a "Prize" following misfortune at sea. I can see thee attraction of saving the construction cost of a fourth Dreadnought Class, but I don't think Trident D5 would fit and our allies might be unhappy about it as well. So of course she would be returned to her rightful owners.

Scimitar54 wrote:and our allies might be unhappy about it as well

... some of our allies ...

I know it won't happen but I've always liked HMS VENGEANCE !!! does what it says on the tin - he he

Vanguard, Victorious, Vigilant and Vengeance are already in service, their names are not likely to be repeated again so soon in the next class.

Scimitar54 wrote:Usual process would have been for the French to build and name such an SSBN, and for us to Re-name her after taking her as a "Prize" following misfortune at sea. I can see thee attraction of saving the construction cost of a fourth Dreadnought Class, but I don't think Trident D5 would fit and our allies might be unhappy about it as well. So of course she would be returned to her rightful owners.

When things that shouldn't go bump in the night did go bump in the night a few years back it is a little disappointing that the underwater grappling hooks weren't flung across and the boarding party assembled.

Update on Dreadnought
Highlights taken from the 2018 Update to Parliament, the seventh annual update - The United Kingdom’s Future Nuclear Deterrent:

Programme
Remains within budget and on track for the First of Class, HMS Dreadnought, to enter service in the early 2030s // The programme entered Delivery Phase 2 in April // continuation of the manufacture of the first submarine, and commencement of the build of the second (Valiant), and the manufacture of Dreadnought's nuclear propulsion power plant. // The major subcontract commitments planned under this Phase include gearboxes, main engines and generators // Construction of the main pressure hull units for Dreadnought are progressing well // there have been technical complications with the manufacturing of the missile tubes to be used in the Common Missile Compartment being developed for our submarines and the United States' Columbia Class.

Costs
To date £5.5 billion has been spent so far on the concept, assessment, and early delivery phases - £1.2 billion of which was spent in Financial Year 2017/18. // The 2015 Strategic Defence and Security Review estimated that the programme is likely to cost a total of £31 billion (including inflation over the lifetime of the programme), and set a contingency of £10 billion. // The National Audit Office reported the expected total spend on supporting the "Enterprise" as £50.9 billion between 2018 and 2028.

International other than US
In France, infrastructure to support the TEUTATES Treaty continues. The UK Explosives Storage was formally opened in September at the French Atomic Energy Commission’s Epure facility at Valduc. Construction of the UK Office Block will be complete before the end of the year and the UK Eyes Only facility for the assembly of UK hydrodynamic experiments will go operational in the first half of 2019. // Cooperation with France under the TEUTATES Treaty is progressing. This will deliver a hydrodynamic capability to conduct experiments ensuring our nuclear weapons remain safe and effective.

Management
In April, the Submarine Delivery Agency became a new Executive Agency of the Department established solely for the procurement, in-service support and disposal of submarines. // Also in April, the Department established the Dreadnought Alliance: a joint management team between the Submarine Delivery Agency, BAE Systems and Rolls-Royce.

Notes
Propulsion
Mentions generators so may be all electric drive as with the USN new Columbia SSBN class, if so no mention of electric motor, the USN did have overheating problems with EM for Columbia under test, claimed not to have thrown the “no-margin-for-error” program off-schedule. Also presuming its a version of the DRS PMM (more compact than AIM design) 36.5M developed for Zumwalt, but early test problems led to it being replaced by GE’s Power Conversion/Converteam/Alstom Advanced Induction Motors. Also mention of development of gearbox, so looks like RR not going forward with the Magnomatics and its highly efficient and compact magnetic Pseudo Direct Drive (PDD) for marine applications, RR involved in development, my understanding PDD would have enabled deletion of prop shaft and noisy gearbox, but it would be high risk as PDD still in R&D and unproven.

Missile Tubes
The US build Columbia Trident missile launch tubes to be used by Dreadnought found with defective welding causing a ten mouth delay, so slightly surprised report can claim remains on track unless enough slack built into programme.

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.u ... iament.pdf

Not sure where to post this but I will take a punt and guess here.

Great choice

Some great background here,

http://iainballantyne.com/warspite-100/

Any takers for Revenge being the fourth?

Valiant would be my bet.