Dreadnought Class SSBN

[jimthelad]

I still prefer 'Dildo'- Large, black, pointy at one end, whirry at the other, and they don't like it up them Captain Mainwaring

[Repulse]

Sticking with D would be:
- Destruction
- Devastation
- Doomsday

[Rambo]

I would go with

Warspite
Valiant
Defiance

[Ron5]

They've already said they won't be sticking with "D"'s. Names will resonate with history or some such.

[ArmChairCivvy]

It would be a pity if a few AIP SSKs , sitting quietly on the exit routes out of Faslane, could undo the whole expensive deterrence (with torps that exhibit low negative buoyancy, as in the following:)

[Ron5]

Wouldn't those SSK's have to keep up with the nukes to have an impact? A tough task for them.

[shark bait]

Yeah that couldn't happen, SSK's cant chase.

The danger is them sitting there and waiting for the V-Boats to drift by, its why need a bunch of assets attached to the deterrent to ensure the local area is sterilised.

If we can't do that it undermines the whole deterrent.

[Ron5]

OK so the SSK's sink the Vanguard "drifting by". Then what? There's still one at sea loaded for bear.

[bobp]

A new defence agency is to be set up to take charge of the Dreadnought class procurement...
Full details here http://www.defensenews.com/articles/new ... nstruction

[Ron5]

A new defence agency is to be set up to take charge of the Dreadnought class procurement...
Full details here http://www.defensenews.com/articles/new ... nstruction

Good news I think. I'd be happier if they also owned the budget and had freedom to make financial trade-offs within it but the Treasury won't have that.

Did enjoy Falllon lecturing industry on the importance of no delays when the history of the T45, Astute, CVF & T26 programs show the biggest cause of delays by far, was his own dept and their pals at No 11. No bigger hypocrite than a self-serving politician.

[bobp]

I seem to recall a certain gentleman from No11 wanting to run the program.

[Ron5]

I seem to recall a certain gentleman from No11 wanting to run the program.

Well he did buy SJP's national shipbuilding strategy that wasn't.

No bigger example of the UK's dysfunction than the Treasury trying to dictate the type and build arrangements of future warships.

And then failing by not getting anything from SJP but a long litany of how it's all the MoD & Treasury's fault that the current situation is a major s-show.

[bobp]

Well the fact remains the Treasury has brought about this mess, they claim we are skint (broke), that there is zilch in the purse, but then go on to talk about funding railways 50Bn, Foreign Aid 13Bn, Free Medical and Education, Housing and Benefits to one and all. So until the day comes that more money is made available yes Defence is a mess.

[ArmChairCivvy]

The four Commands having been given autonomy to decide within their yearly budgets now gets a fifth one coming along (not operationally, though, just on the procurement front) with subs.
- which in the next EP coming out will mean merging "boats" and "strategic projects"
- which then lets more daylight through to how the show in surface ship design and building is being run

[Ron5]

Well the fact remains the Treasury has brought about this mess, they claim we are skint (broke), that there is zilch in the purse, but then go on to talk about funding railways 50Bn, Foreign Aid 13Bn, Free Medical and Education, Housing and Benefits to one and all. So until the day comes that more money is made available yes Defence is a mess.

What's required most (and SJP agrees!) is not so much the amounts of money but consistency as to their availability to be spent. In other words, its the turning off and on and off again of the money spigot that does the damage.

[Ron5]

The four Commands having been given autonomy to decide within their yearly budgets now gets a fifth one coming along (not operationally, though, just on the procurement front) with subs.
- which in the next EP coming out will mean merging "boats" and "strategic projects"
- which then lets more daylight through to how the show in surface ship design and building is being run

I know nothing about this new arrangement but I'd bet a bunch that it doesn't include capital spending.

[ArmChairCivvy]

I know nothing about this new arrangement but I'd bet a bunch that it doesn't include capital spending.

- involves quite a lot: managing the remaining half of the Astute builds and all of Dreadnought prgrm (minus the 3 bn or so already spent)

is not so much the amounts of money but consistency as to their availability to be spent

- the problem has been recognised: the agency gets the money allocated out to 2 and a half decades ahead, and is solely then focussed on "how best to"
- I bet the agency will not live any longer than that, or will become solely focussed on the land part of the nuclear weapons (the real action on this side will only kick off in the forties; CLC (is the abbreviation right; it is still early morning?) is a modest step in preparation

[Ron5]

I know nothing about this new arrangement but I'd bet a bunch that it doesn't include capital spending.

- involves quite a lot: managing the remaining half of the Astute builds and all of Dreadnought prgrm (minus the 3 bn or so already spent)

is not so much the amounts of money but consistency as to their availability to be spent

- the problem has been recognised: the agency gets the money allocated out to 2 and a half decades ahead, and is solely then focussed on "how best to"
- I bet the agency will not live any longer than that, or will become solely focussed on the land part of the nuclear weapons (the real action on this side will only kick off in the forties; CLC (is the abbreviation right; it is still early morning?) is a modest step in preparation

Color me extremely dubious re-your claims. Not you I don't trust, it's them that runs the Treasury that inspire it.

[ArmChairCivvy]

Not you I don't trust, it's them that runs the Treasury that inspire it.

The "function" did not end up within the Treasury - which is what the Empire-builder/ aspiring next PM intended.

[Ron5]

Ah but that doesn't mean they gave up the purse strings.

[ArmChairCivvy]

gets the money allocated out to 2 and a half decades ahead

Can you better that?

[Ron5]

Allocating money in the spending plan doesn't mean this new lot has budget control.

[shark bait]

PWR2 reactor was not deemed safe enough (in design) and PWR3 (planned for Successors all along) was accelerated.

There was talk of PWR3 going into Astute, but sensibly that plan was dropped, or never true in the first place.

Interestingly PWR3 is also been developed in to a small scale modular civilian reactor, which may indicate Dreadnought is an all electric boat.

[ArmChairCivvy]

There was talk of PWR3 going into Astute, but sensibly that plan was dropped

the talk, or the plan, did generate this Parlaimentary question:

To ask the Secretary of State for Defence pursuant to his oral contribution of 18 June 2012, Official Report, column 614, on nuclear powered submarines, how many submarine reactor cores will be built by Rolls-Royce by 2023; and how many such cases will be of the (a) PWR2 and (b) PWR3 design.
Hansard source
(Citation: HC Deb, 2 July 2012, c469W)
Photo of Peter Luff Peter Luff The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Defence
In the period up to 2023, the recently announced contract with Rolls-Royce is planned to deliver one pressurised water reactor (PWR) 2 reactor core and one PWR3 reactor core. The PWR3 core will not be manufactured until after the Successor Main Gate decision in 2016.

Things do intervene with the neatly lined up schedules, though:
"6th March 2014: The Secretary of State for Defence made a statement to Parliament announcing his
decision to refuel HMS Vanguard in 2015"
which is not just cost, but even more so time... on which aspect (the required number of units having been doubled) NAO (2015) informs us:
"52 months for the Core Production Capability project. The unforeseen need
to produce an additional reactor core as a consequence of the refuelling of
HMS Vanguard and to retain the capability to produce a core for HMS Victorious,
if required, means that the final phase of regeneration of the production facility has
been deferred. This is to maintain the capability for the production of existing cores,
while minimising the risk to the capability for producing cores for Successor;"

[Ron5]

I was under the impression that the Astutes hull was enlarged to make room for the larger reactor.