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Type 26 Frigate (City Class) (RN) [News Only]

Contains threads on Royal Navy equipment of the past, present and future.

Which Anti-Ship Missile Should be Selected for the Type 26?

Lockheed Martin LRASM
146
52%
Kongsberg NSM
64
23%
Boeing Harpoon Next Gen
43
15%
MBDA Exocet Blk III
19
7%
None (stick to guided ammo and FASGW from Helicopters)
8
3%
 
Total votes: 280

Ron5
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Re: Type 26 Frigate (City Class) (RN) [News Only]

Postby Ron5 » 31 Jan 2020, 15:59

shark bait wrote:There's only one Bloke working on it, give him a chance!


Two. One's taking the photo.

Scimitar54
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Re: Type 26 Frigate (City Class) (RN) [News Only]

Postby Scimitar54 » 31 Jan 2020, 16:20

Oh! So that is why there is no one working at any of the roadworks that I pass, wherever I drive. :mrgreen:

jonas
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Re: Type 26 Frigate (City Class) (RN) [News Only]

Postby jonas » 26 Feb 2020, 15:25

A bit more of the jigsaw in place, those two guys must be working their nuts off :- Sorry about the additional tweets.


Ron5
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Re: Type 26 Frigate (City Class) (RN) [News Only]

Postby Ron5 » 26 Feb 2020, 15:42

They weren't kidding when they said not much could be seen of the aft section with all the covering tarps. Makes you wonder what secrets are being hidden away :D

Thanks Jonas.

donald_of_tokyo
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Re: Type 26 Frigate (City Class) (RN) [News Only]

Postby donald_of_tokyo » 27 Feb 2020, 15:53

Royal Navy twitter.

Two more sections have been completed, ready to be added to the already-joined forward segment of HMS Glasgow at BAE Systems’ yard in Govan, while the RN’s traditional paint scheme has been applied to units pieced together in what will eventually be an 8,000-tonne jigsaw.

see "https://twitter.com/RoyalNavy/status/1233015216847364096"

"An 8,000-tonne jigsaw.". So, apparently, sometimes-quoted "6900t" of T26 is standard or light weight, not full-load displacement.

Ron5
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Re: Type 26 Frigate (City Class) (RN) [News Only]

Postby Ron5 » 27 Feb 2020, 17:57

donald_of_tokyo wrote:Royal Navy twitter.

Two more sections have been completed, ready to be added to the already-joined forward segment of HMS Glasgow at BAE Systems’ yard in Govan, while the RN’s traditional paint scheme has been applied to units pieced together in what will eventually be an 8,000-tonne jigsaw.

see "https://twitter.com/RoyalNavy/status/1233015216847364096"

"An 8,000-tonne jigsaw.". So, apparently, sometimes-quoted "6900t" of T26 is standard or light weight, not full-load displacement.


So they should actually be using the lower figure. The jigsaw doesn't include the contents :D

inch
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Re: Type 26 Frigate (City Class) (RN) [News Only]

Postby inch » 27 Feb 2020, 18:34

Maybe it's 9100t really ron5 ,they just been kidding us ;-)

Brasil
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Re: Type 26 Frigate (City Class) (RN) [News Only]

Postby Brasil » 09 Mar 2020, 19:42

What is the VLS model (in addition to the MK-41) that will be responsible for launching the Sea Ceptor in the Type 26?

tomuk
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Re: Type 26 Frigate (City Class) (RN) [News Only]

Postby tomuk » 09 Mar 2020, 20:42

Brasil wrote:What is the VLS model (in addition to the MK-41) that will be responsible for launching the Sea Ceptor in the Type 26?


A variation of the 'Mushroom' launchers fitted on the Type 23

Brasil
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Re: Type 26 Frigate (City Class) (RN) [News Only]

Postby Brasil » 09 Mar 2020, 20:59

tomuk wrote:A variation of the 'Mushroom' launchers fitted on the Type 23


Already have a name? I'm looking to know this because it looks like the same model that Brazil adopted for its new light frigates, Tamandaré class.

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Cooper
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Re: Type 26 Frigate (City Class) (RN) [News Only]

Postby Cooper » 10 Mar 2020, 07:10

Brasil wrote:
tomuk wrote:A variation of the 'Mushroom' launchers fitted on the Type 23


Already have a name? I'm looking to know this because it looks like the same model that Brazil adopted for its new light frigates, Tamandaré class.


Sea Ceptor.

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Re: Type 26 Frigate (City Class) (RN) [News Only]

Postby Brasil » 13 Mar 2020, 23:49

Cooper wrote:Sea Ceptor.


Im looking for the launcher model, not the missile.

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Jensy
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Re: Type 26 Frigate (City Class) (RN) [News Only]

Postby Jensy » 14 Mar 2020, 00:49

Brasil wrote:
Cooper wrote:Sea Ceptor.


Im looking for the launcher model, not the missile.


The entire system, including the vertical launch Sea Wolf variant was called, 'GWS-26'. The conventionally launched system (such as on Greenhalgh and Rademaker) is the 'GWS-25'.

Not sure I've ever heard a specific name for just the launcher but they're the same tubes that now fire Sea Ceptor (just with a little hat/mushroom on top).

Why no one has bought the standalone, quad-packed, Lockheed ExLS launcher yet is something of a curiosity.

Brasil
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Re: Type 26 Frigate (City Class) (RN) [News Only]

Postby Brasil » 14 Mar 2020, 02:35

Jensy wrote:
Brasil wrote:
Cooper wrote:Sea Ceptor.


Im looking for the launcher model, not the missile.


The entire system, including the vertical launch Sea Wolf variant was called, 'GWS-26'. The conventionally launched system (such as on Greenhalgh and Rademaker) is the 'GWS-25'.

Not sure I've ever heard a specific name for just the launcher but they're the same tubes that now fire Sea Ceptor (just with a little hat/mushroom on top).

Why no one has bought the standalone, quad-packed, Lockheed ExLS launcher yet is something of a curiosity.



The Brazilian Tamandaré frigate (who also launches the Sea Ceptor) seems to have the same "mushroom" launcher of the type 26:

You can zoom the oficial image here:
https://external-preview.redd.it/A06b52 ... 7a0a5734e7

And here in the 1:33 mark

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ArmChairCivvy
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Re: Type 26 Frigate (City Class) (RN) [News Only]

Postby ArmChairCivvy » 14 Mar 2020, 06:24

Jensy wrote:Why no one has bought the standalone, quad-packed, Lockheed ExLS launcher yet is something of a curiosity.


Price, I would guess.

NZ could not use existing tubes and still went with some 'sporting' version rather than ExLS.

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SKB
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Re: Type 26 Frigate (City Class) (RN) [News Only]

Postby SKB » 26 Mar 2020, 11:00


NickC
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Re: Type 26 Frigate (City Class) (RN) [News Only]

Postby NickC » 30 Mar 2020, 11:35

Its worrying that with the BAE Scottish shipyards build system it was only on delivery that the build defects on HMS Forth showed up, now with the bad experience of Forth behind them its good news that they have made the necessary changes to their quality assurance protocols.

It could be argued the Batch 2 OPVs as a pipe cleaner did their job, all be at an expensive one, and able to catch it early on in the T26 build, so avoiding a bigger more expensive disaster with the T26.

NAO reported on the Batch 2 OPVs where it detailed the defects in build of HMS Forth that made it unsafe to operate leading to a thirteen month delay in IOC, subsequent checks revealed the same quality assurance failures in build of first T26, Glasgow.

https://www.nao.org.uk/wp-content/uploa ... omised.pdf p45

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Re: Type 26 Frigate (City Class) (RN) [News Only]

Postby NickC » 30 Mar 2020, 11:53

SKB wrote:https://twitter.com/NavyLookout/status/1242847914818506756


I'm guessing the German Mission Bay Handling System was part of Rolls Royce Commercial Marine, sold to Kongsberg in Apr 2019 for ~£350 million to help RR fund rectification of tech problems on their Trent engines, BBC reported RR incurred £2.9 billion loss.

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Re: Type 26 Frigate (City Class) (RN) [News Only]

Postby Ron5 » 30 Mar 2020, 16:23

NickC wrote:
SKB wrote:https://twitter.com/NavyLookout/status/1242847914818506756


I'm guessing the German Mission Bay Handling System was part of Rolls Royce Commercial Marine, sold to Kongsberg in Apr 2019 for ~£350 million to help RR fund rectification of tech problems on their Trent engines, BBC reported RR incurred £2.9 billion loss.


"Rolls-Royce Canada based in Peterborough, Ontario has considerable experience manufacturing marine container and load-handling equipment for the commercial sector and signed a Design and Development Agreement for the Type 26 with the MoD in 2014. The contract for the manufacture of the MBHS for the first three ships in was awarded in February 2018"

NickC
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Re: Type 26 Frigate (City Class) (RN) [News Only]

Postby NickC » 31 Mar 2020, 12:18

Ron5 wrote:
NickC wrote:
SKB wrote:https://twitter.com/NavyLookout/status/1242847914818506756


I'm guessing the German Mission Bay Handling System was part of Rolls Royce Commercial Marine, sold to Kongsberg in Apr 2019 for ~£350 million to help RR fund rectification of tech problems on their Trent engines, BBC reported RR incurred £2.9 billion loss.


"Rolls-Royce Canada based in Peterborough, Ontario has considerable experience manufacturing marine container and load-handling equipment for the commercial sector and signed a Design and Development Agreement for the Type 26 with the MoD in 2014. The contract for the manufacture of the MBHS for the first three ships in was awarded in February 2018"


Thx for correction, so if understand correctly RRCM, now Kongsberg, only manufacturing the fixed pitch propellers at Waren, Germany for the T26.

Key Features
• Five blades
• Optimised variable pitch distribution
• Non-linear blade skew of 18 degrees
• Advanced new technology blade sections
• Close to 50% reduction in ship hull vibrations due to propeller induced hull pressures
• About 50% reduction in ship machinery vibration levels due to propeller induced unsteady shaft forces
• Improved propeller efficiency

From <https://www.kongsberg.com/maritime/products/propulsors-and-propulsion-systems/propellers/fixed-pitch-propeller/#technicalInformation>

Einar Vegsund VP Design & Hydro hos Kongsberg Maritime designer of the RRS Sir David Attenborough built to meet DNV Silent R class rules said propellers are the main source of noise but are also very important for vessel efficiency // Designers seek to move the thrust generated by the propeller further from the tip and closer to the hub. Unloading the propeller tip decreases the “disturbance of the water” by the propeller closer to the hull reducing the noise it creates. At the same time, unloading the tip reduces the efficiency"
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Re: Type 26 Frigate (City Class) (RN) [News Only]

Postby 90inFIRST » 03 Apr 2020, 15:18

Post says 5 blades picture shows 4?

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ArmChairCivvy
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Re: Type 26 Frigate (City Class) (RN) [News Only]

Postby ArmChairCivvy » 03 Apr 2020, 18:33

At the time of the 2019 DSEI the count was still 5:
https://www.themilitarytimes.co.uk/wp-c ... 24x498.jpg

However, there was also a comment that the appearance was of a T23 propellor scaled up; a little bit of product development?

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Re: Type 26 Frigate (City Class) (RN) [News Only]

Postby NickC » 04 Apr 2020, 11:53

Just background info on quiet propellers,

RRS Sir David Attenborough designed for extremely low underwater radiated noise to avoid interference with survey equipment or disturbance to marine mammals or fish distribution is fitted with two RollsRoyce, now Kongsberg, five bladed 4.5 m diameter Controllable Pitch Propellers, CPP, whereas T26 FPP.

According to hydrodynamicist Björn Schröder (Blade Design and Hydrodynamics-Rolls-Royce Marine “The preliminary propeller design did not meet the strict noise requirements. The main source of noise was the tip vortex cavitation. So instead of further unloading the tip of the propeller, we optimised the propeller to deliver a high cavitation inception speed (CIS) like a naval vessel, and thus mitigating the tip vortex cavitation and achieve Silent R requirements.”

Pic found on web, shows the large propeller boss required for a CPP.
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Re: Type 26 Frigate (City Class) (RN) [News Only]

Postby NickC » 07 Apr 2020, 09:43

Ultra Electronics S2150 HMS, xav posted on T23 thread, Ultra also rec'd order for three ship sets for the first batch of T26's, presume any future orders for T26 the HMS will be met from scrapped T23's, my pic wouldn't post [b] :eh: [/b], see xav post.

Courtesy Ultra Electronics

"The sonar has been designed by Ultra Electronics Command & Sonar Systems and will replace the legacy Sonar Type 2050, which has been in Royal Navy service since the 1990s. The new sonar incorporates a state of the art User Interface to improve operator effectiveness and usability.

The digital control of the outboard array minimises interference, reduces ships cabling, maximises reliability and extends array maintenance intervals to at least five years. The sonar will be fitted to eight of the Royal Navy Type 23 frigates. Ultra has also been awarded the contract to supply this sonar to the first three Royal Navy Type 26 frigates currently under construction.

As part of Ultra’s ‘Sea Searcher’ sonar range, Ultra has also developed two smaller and lighter weight variants of the Type 2150 Hull Mount Sonar for naval vessels up to 1,000 tonnes and 2,000 tonnes respectively.

With state-of-the art in-board processing and innovative user displays, this family of sonar systems provides a potent Anti-Submarine Warfare capability for patrol vessels, frigates and other vessels worldwide.

Mike Williams, Managing Director of Ultra Electronics Command & Sonar Systems commented: “Reaching this significant milestone has been key for Ultra. With a number of significant changes from the Sonar 2050 system it replaces, the project team has designed and developed a system that simplifies user operability and significantly reduces life cycle costs and in board footprint. They have truly excelled themselves”


From <https://www.adsadvance.co.uk/ultra-electronics-installs-first-s2150-hull-mount-sonar-on-type-23-frigate-hms-portland.html>

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Re: Type 26 Frigate (City Class) (RN) [News Only]

Postby ArmChairCivvy » 07 Apr 2020, 10:11

This emphasis on improving hull mounted sonars - and adding MAD to Merlins, is it to better balance the sub hunting capability whether they need to be undertaken in blue water or closer to littorals?
- or is it/ are they just all-round improvements?


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