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Re: Type 26 Frigate (City Class) (RN) [News Only]

Posted: 05 Nov 2018, 20:29
by NickC
My reading of the 5th Nov MOD Defence Equipment Plan 2018 Fig. 22 quotes current T26 cost to completion as £4,242M for the three ships, with first current in service date Oct 2027. If exclude the 'Assessment and Demonstration Phase' BAE contracts of ~ £1.5B would give build cost of ~ £900 million each. Just don't understand how Japanese can build their new 6,000t 30FFM for ~ £400M and the T26 costing £900M, to me just too costly and would terminate programme at the three ships.

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.u ... NAL-v1.pdf

Re: Type 26 Frigate (City Class) (RN) [News Only]

Posted: 06 Nov 2018, 00:11
by Ron5
Your "interpretation" is incorrect.

Re: Type 26 Frigate (City Class) (RN) [News Only]

Posted: 06 Nov 2018, 09:04
by NickC
Ron5 wrote:Your "interpretation" is incorrect.
You may be right, it could be that for an apples to apples comparison the design costs are included in the Japanese 6,000t 30FFM cost at ~£400M and if so cost the T26 on same basis looking at £1,400M per ship, RN paying ~ £1B premium for first 3 ships, as said whichever way you look at the costs the T26 is just too costly and need to terminate programme at the 3 ships, a very sad indictment of the incompetence of MOD/RN which let the T26 grow like topsy.

Think Defence quote
"The weight and size of Type 26 has changed, and possibly will continue to change until the detailed design is frozen and steel cut. This original baseline was reportedly 141m long, displacing 6,850 tonnes and costing an estimated £500m each. As part of the ongoing cost/capability trade-offs, it was repeatedly reported that this cost was undesirable to the MoD and capabilities (and size) pared down to achieve a target cost of £250 million to £350 million each."

BAE in their T26 PR quoted 5,400t for a long time, now Australia Hunter quoted at 8,800t

Re: Type 26 Frigate (City Class) (RN) [News Only]

Posted: 06 Nov 2018, 09:18
by ArmChairCivvy
Contrary to 'folklore' about T31 being a rushed idea, the decision to to split the class in two (8+5) was taken in 2010, but seeing T-26 through the main gate took longer than anyone had expected
- letting the follow-on act 'bolt' before time was not permissible

Had it become known that a T23 successor will cost three-four times more, then defending that 8+5 split might have been an onerous task ;)
- sliding the ruler later, little by little, suits everyone involved better?

I will double post to "General" as these news haven't broken yet :D

Re: Type 26 Frigate (City Class) (RN) [News Only]

Posted: 06 Nov 2018, 10:09
by shark bait
Ron5 wrote:Your "interpretation" is incorrect.
Do you have anything to corroborate that? The figures at the moment point to a billion pound frigate.

Re: Type 26 Frigate (City Class) (RN) [News Only]

Posted: 06 Nov 2018, 11:26
by Poiuytrewq
NickC wrote:would give build cost of ~ £900 million each.
I have been estimating a T26 unit price (excluding R&D) for the first 8 hulls at ~£860m so your figure looks about right to me.

Re: Type 26 Frigate (City Class) (RN) [News Only]

Posted: 06 Nov 2018, 12:59
by NickC
Lord West, former First Sea Lord, speaking in June said more urgency is needed in securing the work for the next five City-class warships, If there isn’t a ‘steady drum beat’ of orders for UK shipyards, the Labour peer warned overall costs could soar, with delays blighting the project.

Do not disagree but a faster build rate might save ~£10M? in shipyard overhead costs per ship, that's just noise in the build total cost of a T26 at ~ £900M each.

Re: Type 26 Frigate (City Class) (RN) [News Only]

Posted: 06 Nov 2018, 13:44
by jonas
In regards to 'the defence equipment plan 2018, under 'Navy Command' I found this intriguing.

Quote
The Type 26 Frigate programme remains on
track to deliver within contract, although early
engineering issues have absorbed some
schedule float.
Unquote

Re: Type 26 Frigate (City Class) (RN) [News Only]

Posted: 06 Nov 2018, 13:49
by ArmChairCivvy
jonas wrote: although early
engineering issues have absorbed some
schedule float.
Just look at how much 'float' they have and 'some' out of it is nothing :)

Re: Type 26 Frigate (City Class) (RN) [News Only]

Posted: 06 Nov 2018, 17:21
by Ron5
shark bait wrote:
Ron5 wrote:Your "interpretation" is incorrect.
Do you have anything to corroborate that? The figures at the moment point to a billion pound frigate.
Hint: the report is about the allocation of the 10 year funding plan. Not a program by program costing. Anyone that claims they can extract UPC is ether a fool or a troll.

Re: Type 26 Frigate (City Class) (RN) [News Only]

Posted: 06 Nov 2018, 17:22
by Ron5
Poiuytrewq wrote:
NickC wrote:would give build cost of ~ £900 million each.
I have been estimating a T26 unit price (excluding R&D) for the first 8 hulls at ~£860m so your figure looks about right to me.
You mean "guessing".

Re: Type 26 Frigate (City Class) (RN) [News Only]

Posted: 07 Nov 2018, 07:57
by matt00773
Teresa May calls Justin Trudeau on Type 26 selection (and other things) for Canadian Royal Navy:

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/read ... ember-2018

Re: Type 26 Frigate (City Class) (RN) [News Only]

Posted: 07 Nov 2018, 08:14
by ArmChairCivvy
matt00773 wrote:Teresa May calls Justin Trudeau on Type 26 selection (and other things) for Canadian Royal Navy:

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/read ... ember-2018
A pure coincidence that T-26 is mentioned as the first item. The real beef is in keeping the G7 relevant (ref: G20 coming up soon)
- Great Power competition is back; the rest of the G7 is worried about "the elephants fighting" as the grass :D will suffer
- in this context Trump's musings about inviting Russia back become understandable (though the timing might not be right... would be like receiving a medal and being invited for tea - for bad behaviour!)

Re: Type 26 Frigate (City Class) (RN) [News Only]

Posted: 07 Nov 2018, 09:22
by jonas
ArmChairCivvy wrote:
jonas wrote: although early
engineering issues have absorbed some
schedule float.
Just look at how much 'float' they have and 'some' out of it is nothing :)
Yes, I guess it's called hedging your bets. :shh:

Re: Type 26 Frigate (City Class) (RN) [News Only]

Posted: 07 Nov 2018, 21:37
by hovematlot
Series of tweets today from Bae revealing their new Combat Management System. I'm assuming this will be fitted to the T26?
bae1a.jpg
bae2a.jpg
bae3a.jpg
bae4a.jpg

Re: Type 26 Frigate (City Class) (RN) [News Only]

Posted: 07 Nov 2018, 22:57
by Ron5
Hopefully beaten in service by those on the Type 31's.

Quick question: after reading the tweets, whats the difference between INTeGen and INTeACT ?

Re: Type 26 Frigate (City Class) (RN) [News Only]

Posted: 07 Nov 2018, 23:02
by Ron5
Caption contest # 325:
bae1a cropped.jpg

Re: Type 26 Frigate (City Class) (RN) [News Only]

Posted: 08 Nov 2018, 00:10
by SKB
Ron5 wrote:Caption contest # 325:
bae1a cropped.jpg
"Can I have a P please, Bob?"

Re: Type 26 Frigate (City Class) (RN) [News Only]

Posted: 12 Nov 2018, 05:12
by matt00773
PM Teresa May to announce the name of a T26 as HMS London in a speech today:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/ ... ei-skripal

HMS Glasgow
HMS Cardiff
HMS Belfast
HMS Birmingham
HMS London

Re: Type 26 Frigate (City Class) (RN) [News Only]

Posted: 12 Nov 2018, 06:17
by Scimitar54
Any takers for Edinburgh, Swansea & Londonderry for the last three?

Re: Type 26 Frigate (City Class) (RN) [News Only]

Posted: 12 Nov 2018, 06:48
by matt00773
Scimitar54 wrote:Any takers for Edinburgh, Swansea & Londonderry for the last three?
Londonderry would be a political no no. Newcastle, Leeds/Sheffield, Manchester/Liverpool would be my approximation.

Re: Type 26 Frigate (City Class) (RN) [News Only]

Posted: 12 Nov 2018, 10:29
by SKB
Ugh. London. Crap name and a crap city. :mrgreen:

Re: Type 26 Frigate (City Class) (RN) [News Only]

Posted: 12 Nov 2018, 16:23
by CameronPerson



Why aren’t they naming the ships in order?

Re: Type 26 Frigate (City Class) (RN) [News Only]

Posted: 12 Nov 2018, 16:33
by Timmymagic
matt00773 wrote:Leeds/Sheffield
Sheffield perhaps. But probably not a Leeds. Leeds did have one of the ex-US 4 stackers named after it (called Town Class in UK service). But traditionally it has adopted a larger vessel (the last Ark Royal was tied to Leeds in place of a ship named Leeds).

Re: Type 26 Frigate (City Class) (RN) [News Only]

Posted: 12 Nov 2018, 17:45
by ArmChairCivvy
CameronPerson wrote: Why aren’t they naming the ships in order?
The full stop (to the sorry saga) has to be put somewhere... and leave no doubt ;)
SKB wrote:The UK is neither a nation
but will "British" do as a nationality?