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Type 26 Frigate (City Class) (RN) [News Only]

Contains threads on Royal Navy equipment of the past, present and future.

Which Anti-Ship Missile Should be Selected for the Type 26?

Lockheed Martin LRASM
137
52%
Kongsberg NSM
61
23%
Boeing Harpoon Next Gen
40
15%
MBDA Exocet Blk III
19
7%
None (stick to guided ammo and FASGW from Helicopters)
8
3%
 
Total votes: 265

RetroSicotte
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Re: Type 26 Frigate (City Class) (RN) [News Only]

Postby RetroSicotte » 08 Oct 2018, 12:59

Fudging words. If it's an announcement on basing, it'll mean that the support to base them will start arriving in 2023, even if that's just a few guys with Microsoft Excel starting to work out rotation and schedules.

Aethulwulf wrote:"Ship and helicopter-launched torpedoes"...

I'd love to believe it meant them actually fitting Stingrays, but the ASROCs are often stated as "torpedoes" due to it being a more recognised public term for ASW, given they are based around torpedoes.

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Re: Type 26 Frigate (City Class) (RN) [News Only]

Postby Aethulwulf » 08 Oct 2018, 13:04

RetroSicotte wrote:Fudging words. If it's an announcement on basing, it'll mean that the support to base them will start arriving in 2023, even if that's just a few guys with Microsoft Excel starting to work out rotation and schedules.

Aethulwulf wrote:"Ship and helicopter-launched torpedoes"...

I'd love to believe it meant them actually fitting Stingrays, but the ASROCs are often stated as "torpedoes" due to it being a more recognised public term for ASW, given they are based around torpedoes.
Conversely, I really hope it doesn't mean they are fitting Stingrays. Ship launched LWTs are a waste of money.

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Re: Type 26 Frigate (City Class) (RN) [News Only]

Postby Poiuytrewq » 08 Oct 2018, 13:33

Aethulwulf wrote:"Ship and helicopter-launched torpedoes"
Is this in effect an ASROC confirmation?

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Re: Type 26 Frigate (City Class) (RN) [News Only]

Postby Aethulwulf » 08 Oct 2018, 13:39

Poiuytrewq wrote:
Aethulwulf wrote:"Ship and helicopter-launched torpedoes"
Is this in effect an ASROC confirmation?
It's a minor point in a MOD press release, probably written by a junior official, about the future base for T26.

It is very possible that it means nothing.

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Re: Type 26 Frigate (City Class) (RN) [News Only]

Postby ArmChairCivvy » 08 Oct 2018, 13:40

I accept the irony in
RetroSicotte wrote:just a few guys with Microsoft Excel starting to work out rotation and schedules
as I use it (too often for my own good) myself, but in fact the 'ticket' for the first three (as announced) being so huge has much to do with shore support
- and, hence, we still do not have the foggiest :( about the unit price for the follow-on batch :?

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RichardIC
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Re: Type 26 Frigate (City Class) (RN) [News Only]

Postby RichardIC » 08 Oct 2018, 14:03

Poiuytrewq wrote:Is this in effect an ASROC confirmation?


Aethulwulf wrote:It's a minor point in a MOD press release, probably written by a junior official, about the future base for T26.

Yup, a line written by a junior press officer and signed off by someone who hasn't read it properly. It's not a policy announcement (UKDJ may spin it otherwise).

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Re: Type 26 Frigate (City Class) (RN) [News Only]

Postby jonas » 08 Oct 2018, 14:09

Poiuytrewq wrote:
bobp wrote:
jonas wrote:I do realiise she has her hands full with her job, but a few minutes a month surely wouldn't be asking to much. As a major project for the RN it seems to be shrouded in secrecy, unlike the carriers where we were kept fully up to date throughout the build.

Some pictures of the build would be nice :crazy:
I think this is one area that RN and to a certain extent BAE could do a lot more from a Public Relations standpoint.

The UK is currently building the world's premier ASW Frigate, why not have a documentary team following the build process and show the taxpayers what the Defence budget is spent on.

Could it be that the build process has been so artificially slowed down that it would appear that little progress is actually being made?


In regards to the last sentence, I would say this is very much the case.

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donald_of_tokyo
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Re: Type 26 Frigate (City Class) (RN) [News Only]

Postby donald_of_tokyo » 08 Oct 2018, 14:55

Agree it is just a mistake. All information, including the CG, is on line with the T26 program as of 2013-2015. :thumbup:

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Re: Type 26 Frigate (City Class) (RN) [News Only]

Postby shark bait » 08 Oct 2018, 15:05

RetroSicotte wrote:but the ASROCs are often stated as "torpedoes" due to it being a more recognised public term

They're often stated as "torpedoes" because they are torpedoes. The rocket separates after launch and it behaves like any other air launched torpedo.
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Re: Type 26 Frigate (City Class) (RN) [News Only]

Postby RetroSicotte » 08 Oct 2018, 15:34

shark bait wrote:
RetroSicotte wrote:but the ASROCs are often stated as "torpedoes" due to it being a more recognised public term

They're often stated as "torpedoes" because they are torpedoes. The rocket separates after launch and it behaves like any other air launched torpedo.

The latter part of my unquoted sentence directly states that.

Reason is that "missile" emerged for a while due to their method launch, the US Navy even used it explicitly for a time. But the media never really went by what they preferred due to the reason stated above.

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Re: Type 26 Frigate (City Class) (RN) [News Only]

Postby imperialman » 08 Oct 2018, 15:51

RichardIC wrote:It's not a policy announcement (UKDJ may spin it otherwise).


I wouldn't worry about that. On a side note, I'm hoping to visit GLASGOW in build next month, will post photos here if allowed to take any.

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Re: Type 26 Frigate (City Class) (RN) [News Only]

Postby Ron5 » 08 Oct 2018, 21:02

ArmChairCivvy wrote:I accept the irony in
RetroSicotte wrote:just a few guys with Microsoft Excel starting to work out rotation and schedules
as I use it (too often for my own good) myself, but in fact the 'ticket' for the first three (as announced) being so huge has much to do with shore support
- and, hence, we still do not have the foggiest :( about the unit price for the follow-on batch :?


Good grief, I hope they're not using Excel, there's dozens of far superior project planning tools.

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Re: Type 26 Frigate (City Class) (RN) [News Only]

Postby Ron5 » 08 Oct 2018, 21:06

The MoD has stated officially in public, that ASROC is a candidate for the Type 26 Mk 41's.

I personally have no problem accepting that the RN would like to have them fitted. Donald-san says the Japanese Navy like them, so why wouldn't the UK?

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ArmChairCivvy
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Re: Type 26 Frigate (City Class) (RN) [News Only]

Postby ArmChairCivvy » 08 Oct 2018, 21:13

Ron5 wrote:there's dozens of far superior project planning tools

Hey! We need :) a tri-service standard
Ron5 wrote:Donald-san says the Japanese Navy like them

Have they not improved the range for theirs, too?

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Re: Type 26 Frigate (City Class) (RN) [News Only]

Postby Ron5 » 08 Oct 2018, 21:44

I don't know. I do know that there's been a US proposal for a longer range ASROC that's been around for years with no official USN interest. I think they proposed adding wings to make it more Ikara like.

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Re: Type 26 Frigate (City Class) (RN) [News Only]

Postby ArmChairCivvy » 08 Oct 2018, 22:36

ArmChairCivvy wrote:Have they not improved the range for theirs, too?


They call it ASROC VL 07:
" a complete performance improvement version including not only simple range extension but also improvement in responsiveness.

The missile is fired from Mk 41 vertical launching system and the maximum speed reaches supersonic. It is controlled by inertial guidance system which uses a thrust vector control.The maximum range is said to be over 30 kilometers."
- the descriptions list two different topedoes carried (neither seem to be the "std" US ones)

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donald_of_tokyo
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Re: Type 26 Frigate (City Class) (RN) [News Only]

Postby donald_of_tokyo » 09 Oct 2018, 00:42

JMSDF has its own long-range, super-sonic ASROC. It is using Japanese light-weight torpedo, which is much heavier than Mk.46/54. So, I think it can relatively easily accommodate Stingray if you like :thumbup:

On the other hand, I think there will be two types of range requirements for ASROC.

A- If the enemy SSK is 10nm away, a torpedo even with its top speed of 40 knots needs 15 minutes to reach us. Long enough to deploy an array of decoys. Even in ASM world, soft kill prevails. Under-water sensing is much much much much complicated and difficult, so I understand the soft-kill is very effective. (It is only when the enemy subs is located within 3-4 nm, in which case 5 minutes is not enough to deploy the decoys efficiently.) In this case, the range will be defined by "how long time is needed to deploy decoys".

B- On the other hand, if we want to react to the SSK, to force them cut the torpedo wire to escape, long range will be important. I think Japanese ASROC is aiming at it. In this case, the range will be defined by "how far our sensor can detect enemy subs".

As you know, Range of B is sometimes SHORTER than that of A, which makes is complicated.

But I do agree even a classic VL-ASROC, which is at least good at "A", will be of great importance for T26.

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Re: Type 26 Frigate (City Class) (RN) [News Only]

Postby shark bait » 09 Oct 2018, 08:08

Option B is the only real reason for it to exist. The probability of success after a minutes flight time, then a couple of minutes in a search pattern is low considering such a small sensor in a noisy environment. That's why helicopters are the preferred method.

The only real benefit is the subs commander will hear the splash of the torpedo and choose to run away for another try tomorrow. It may be useful to scare off a sub if it catches a frigate with its pants down.
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Re: Type 26 Frigate (City Class) (RN) [News Only]

Postby The Armchair Soldier » 09 Oct 2018, 11:38

Type 26 news and related discussion in this topic please.

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Re: Type 26 Frigate (City Class) (RN) [News Only]

Postby SKB » 17 Oct 2018, 20:05


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Re: Type 26 Frigate (City Class) (RN) [News Only]

Postby shark bait » 18 Oct 2018, 08:54

Best of British engineering? They were gluing ships together not long ago....
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Re: Type 26 Frigate (City Class) (RN) [News Only]

Postby SW1 » 19 Oct 2018, 17:31


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Re: Type 26 Frigate (City Class) (RN) [News Only]

Postby SKB » 19 Oct 2018, 17:42

15 x T26's for Canada?! :wtf: Can their hulls break ice or something?!


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Re: Type 26 Frigate (City Class) (RN) [News Only]

Postby Caribbean » 19 Oct 2018, 17:52

If that article is correct and 60% of the money is for the ships, then each ship will cost around CAD$2.4b, or approx £1.4b :shock:
The pessimist sees difficulty in every opportunity. The optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty.
Winston Churchill


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