Never mind torpedo launchers, ASROC, USVs or depth charges... Few hundred rounds of 5" will show those pesky Yasen class subs who's boss....Ron5 wrote:T26 also gets the two robot system, the movie only showed the one robot model.
Yes, the robot system is rumored to be rather expensive.Jensy wrote:I can clearly see why 57mm is being favoured for Type 31 now.
Exclusive: anti-submarine warships could be cut down to single figures
‘You might as well start claiming that you're going to defend Great Britain with a bunch of dugout canoes,’ said a defence industry source
It's going to be a long autumn....Anti-submarine warships could be cut down to single figures following the Integrated Defence and Security Review, naval sources have warned, in an act that has been deemed a “national embarrassment” for a maritime nation.
The Telegraph understands that the UK’s existing fleet of frigates could be reduced from 13 to just eight ahead of the highly anticipated review, as replacing them with newer models has proven costly.
“The UK could fall into single number frigrates,” a naval source warned. “We could have less than 10 warships because new build stuff is in the firing line.”
The Ministry of Defence has currently requested three Type 26 frigates and five of the Type 31s – in order to replace the aging Type 23s (which have been functioning since the early 1990s and are likely to retire by 2025).
The source added that the Government “probably won’t order more” and cautioned that “it would be stupid not to”.
The Government has previously said that it aims to have the first Type 31 launched in 2023, with five ships delivered by the end of 2028.
However, a defence industry source warned that they had heard that one possibility was to “cut the existing frigates early to save money and delay the order and introduction of the new frigates, which would leave a gaping chasm”.
“This is just staggering,” they said. “It is a very dangerous situation. "You might as well start claiming that you are going to defend Great Britain with a bunch of dugout canoes.
“This is a painful situation for an island nation that claims it wants to be more visible on the global stage.”
It comes after it was revealed that tanks were being considered as an area to be cut as part of the review, of which Dominic Cummings, Boris Johnson’s chief adviser, is heavily involved in.
“I don’t think he (Mr Cummings) understands the bare facts,” the source added. “He doesn’t understand what these decisions mean and how they are interpreted by our adversaries and enemies.”
Lord West, the former first sea lord, said that while the “first responsibility” for a Government conducting such a review should be the defence and security of “our islands and people”, the current review “is being driven by the requirement to find savings rather than the threats that need to be countered”.
“The alliances that are so important to our security consist of countries that have relied on our military contribution, which is faltering,” he said.
“It’s a national embarrassment for a great maritime nation to have a pitiful small number of frigates.”
Lord West added that the prospect of “single figure” frigates would “impact on protection of our deterrent, protection of merchant ships in the Gulf, providing escorts for the new carriers and operations in the Far East, Baltic, Mediterranean and Falklands".
Tobias Ellwood, Chairman of the Defence Select Committee, asked if there was “no aspect of the military that isn’t going to be salami sliced?”
“It all smacks of a rapidly deteriorating integrated review. They are less interested in our defence posture and more about a domestic revolution across Whitehall. It’s dangerous and we are playing with fire here to reduce our military architecture in the way that’s being considered."
An MoD spokesman said: "With every review it is always the case that people draw early and false conclusions from leaks. We advise against making assumptions based on partial information.
“The guiding principle of the Integrated Review is to ask ourselves what the threat is, and whether we have the capability to meet it.”
How right you are . However as you say no clue as we have only had single figure ASW frigates for years now but it will be all good Cummings will order HMG to fit a VDS to T-31 and say we have a full fleet of world class ASW frigateJensy wrote:It's going to be a long autumn....
Well, in the strictest sense we still have 13.... just five of those are deprived of a VDS!Tempest414 wrote:How right you are . However as you say no clue as we have only had single figure ASW frigates for years now but it will be all good Cummings will order HMG to fit a VDS to T-31 and say we have a full fleet of world class ASW frigateJensy wrote:It's going to be a long autumn....
The serious issue being discussed here is that T26 4-8 are not under contract and are in real peril.Jensy wrote:Well, in the strictest sense we still have 13.... just five of those are deprived of a VDS!
Plenty of room for a Captas 2 on the back of the rivers.... we could have 13 again.
Whether in peril or not, the Telegraph article provides absolutely nothing to support that assertion.RichardIC wrote:The serious issue being discussed here is that T26 4-8 are not under contract and are in real peril.
Honestly wouldn't take any assurance from that.Jensy wrote:On balance, the fact they've been named/announced and the purchasing of long-lead items, specifically the motors from GE Power Conversion in Rugby suggests they are 'relatively' safe:
Point taken! Though at least we're not trying to build the Type 26s on decommissioned County Class Destroyer hulls.RichardIC wrote:Honestly wouldn't take any assurance from that.Jensy wrote:On balance, the fact they've been named/announced and the purchasing of long-lead items, specifically the motors from GE Power Conversion in Rugby suggests they are 'relatively' safe:
Edit: 3 T26 and 6 T31 looking more likely now.Zero Gravitas wrote: In the reasonably short time I've been vaguely following RN escort procurement, "the absolute minimum" has, for example, gone from 12 T45, to 8 (Government said this was because of their increased capability over T42), to 6, (Government said this was because FSC - which became T26 - would be brought forward instead of the extra 2 T45). In practice we now have 5 T45.
FSC started off as a requirement for 20 plus platforms, in three classes if memory serves. This went to 12 of the C1 (T26) variant (which I was pretty pleased with) and we now have this reduced to 8 (Government says that this is because the C2 variant (or possibly C3), which has become T31, will be brought forward instead).
Don't hold you're breath.
A decade ago, on forums like this, 19 escorts was considered a disastrous reduction. We effectively have 17 as of now, as I understand it. The longer the RN gets by on 17 the more likely this will be the new baseline for planning.
If history repeats we will likely get 6 T26 and 3 T31 = 15 in total if all T45 are put back in service.
This really needs to go to another Board now so no objections if mods want to move/remove.Jensy wrote:- Warships built of the Clyde and the fact the SNP wouldn't shut up if we dropped below eight.
- The never-ending spectre of Scottish Independence.
Thanks for reinforcing my point.SKB wrote:The Conservatives have 6 UK Parliament seats in Scotland and 14 in Wales, so hardly just an English nationalist party....
I just knew it would be my favorite Telegraph journalist Danielle Sheridan. We need to tread carefully, so no mention of the journalist's lack of experience, knowledge, research skills, or credible contacts are allowed. Be warned.Jensy wrote:What follows is a long, meandering article clearly written by someone without much understanding of the topic (their other article today was about Boris going on a diet), cobbling together quotes from everyone's favourite ruddy faced retired admiral.
Scottish Conservatives are technically the same party, but they absolutely aren't the same goals and manner. They've always been seen as (and are) very much different from those in England. They are FAR more centralist up here.SKB wrote:The Conservatives have 6 UK Parliament seats in Scotland and 14 in Wales, so hardly just an English nationalist party....
They really need to break their ties with the rabble the English Tories have turned into.RetroSicotte wrote:Scottish Conservatives are technically the same party, but they absolutely aren't the same goals and manner. They've always been seen as (and are) very much different from those in England. They are FAR more centralist up here.
If that's a little friendly dig at me not just reminding news only, then yes, you are quite correct, sir.RichardIC wrote:Amazed at a mod encouraging this behaviour.
In truth that wouldn't have even occured to me! Good spot not sure what else could be that shape and in that location (not likely to be a crane!)Ron5 wrote:Being somewhat nerdy, I was curious as to the identity of the (virtual) equipment immediately below the Scot Antena on the mast. Top right in the picture. Looks to me like a DS30 gun but I've never seen one depicted in that location. Usually an M2 is shown.
I wonder if the DS30's have been relocated from the hangar sides which opens an interesting line of conjecture. Or maybe 4 DS30's now instead of 2. Or maybe I need my eyes checked.
Can anyone see better than me?
That is why looking closely I would suggest it is not part of the current construction phase, but rather part of the overlay whatever it is.RichardIC wrote:I can't tell what it is, but agree it looks DS30ish. The only reason I doubt it is one is that it's too early in the construction phase to be adding them.
