Type 26 Frigate (City Class) (RN) [News Only]

[arfah]

.................

[ArmChairCivvy]

As the Kaiser is rumoured to have stated that Great Britain is an island of shopkeepers

Napoleon that was. He did not reckon with shopkeeper's daughters, what they were like (like Maggie Thatcher, as a specimen).

[Pseudo]

As the Kaiser is rumoured to have stated that Great Britain is an island of shopkeepers

Napoleon that was. He did not reckon with shopkeeper's daughters, what they were like (like Maggie Thatcher, as a specimen).

The problem with shopkeepers as evidenced by Arkwright is that they seem to know the cost of everything and the value of nothing. I'd say that the same goes for shopkeepers daughters if Maggie is our example.

[Lugzy]

"We have a long history with the British. From where we sit, you look a lot like them."

As the Kaiser is rumoured to have stated that Great Britain is an island of shopkeepers, I'd have assumed the CHoD would think that Indians are a lot like us Brits?

Interesting comment ,, If I read it right , I believe it was the Indian CHoD who made the comment directed towards the U.S. Representatives , but either way I'm at a loss to what the possible meaning could be tbh ,

[Lugzy]

As the Kaiser is rumoured to have stated that Great Britain is an island of shopkeepers

Napoleon that was. He did not reckon with shopkeeper's daughters, what they were like (like Maggie Thatcher, as a specimen).

The problem with shopkeepers as evidenced by Arkwright is that they seem to know the cost of everything and the value of nothing. I'd say that the same goes for shopkeepers daughters if Maggie is our example.

I disagree , if that was true of Maggie the possible cost of the Falklands war would of stopped her sending in the task force which retook the Islands , she valued the ppl of the Falklands more than money so in went the fleet ,

[Pseudo]

"We have a long history with the British. From where we sit, you look a lot like them."

As the Kaiser is rumoured to have stated that Great Britain is an island of shopkeepers, I'd have assumed the CHoD would think that Indians are a lot like us Brits?

Interesting comment ,, If I read it right , I believe it was the Indian CHoD who made the comment directed towards the U.S. Representatives , but either way I'm at a loss to what the possible meaning could be tbh ,

My assumption is that he was referring to the economic, military and cultural influence of the US on other countries, which some see as a form of imperialism.

[Lugzy]

"We have a long history with the British. From where we sit, you look a lot like them."

As the Kaiser is rumoured to have stated that Great Britain is an island of shopkeepers, I'd have assumed the CHoD would think that Indians are a lot like us Brits?

Interesting comment ,, If I read it right , I believe it was the Indian CHoD who made the comment directed towards the U.S. Representatives , but either way I'm at a loss to what the possible meaning could be tbh ,

My assumption is that he was referring to the economic, military and cultural influence of the US on other countries, which some see as a form of imperialism.

Ahhhhh gotcha , makes sense I guess from their point of view , but considering how there underlining bitter at times feeling are towards the UK (except maybe the 100s of thousands Indians who live in the UK ) , gives a little insight in how India regards the U.S.and western countries , I guess they are saying your all the same with deep negative undertones ? lol

[arfah]

...................

[Pseudo]

I disagree , if that was true of Maggie the possible cost of the Falklands war would of stopped her sending in the task force which retook the Islands , she valued the ppl of the Falklands more than money so in went the fleet ,

Fair enough, but I would say that (to continue the analogy to the point of torture) shopkeepers and their daughters have a deep dislike of people stealing from them and tend to prosecute those who do to their utmost ability. That Thatcher's government didn't see the value of the RN before the Falklands is demonstrated by the extensive cuts that were planned in the 1981 defence review. That they decided against many of these cuts after the conflict is akin to the shopkeeper seeing the value of the guard dog they were going to have put down after the dog sees off burglars the night before the vets appointment.

[RichardIC]

Didn't this used to be the Type 26 thread?

[desertswo]

"We have a long history with the British. From where we sit, you look a lot like them."

As the Kaiser is rumoured to have stated that Great Britain is an island of shopkeepers, I'd have assumed the CHoD would think that Indians are a lot like us Brits?

Interesting comment ,, If I read it right , I believe it was the Indian CHoD who made the comment directed towards the U.S. Representatives , but either way I'm at a loss to what the possible meaning could be tbh ,

My assumption is that he was referring to the economic, military and cultural influence of the US on other countries, which some see as a form of imperialism.

Ahhhhh gotcha , makes sense I guess from their point of view , but considering how there underlining bitter at times feeling are towards the UK (except maybe the 100s of thousands Indians who live in the UK ) , gives a little insight in how India regards the U.S.and western countries , I guess they are saying your all the same with deep negative undertones ? lol

I suspect it was both. Back to the Type-26 before Richard pops an aneurysm.

[bobp]

Ah the dreaded aneurysm mines 4.4 cm at the moment.

The figures for the T26 don't seem too bad if you divide 11.6 bn by 20 years I suspect if that's the price for 13 ships then its a good one. But that depends on the equipment fit if they end up fitted for but not with like the T45 then BAE should be ashamed.

[seaspear]

I can understand the life span of the ships but what of the various sensors and equipment, would a T26 ten years from now need to be outfitted with new technologies as as present technology is no longer cutting edge and is not worth transfering .

[marktigger]

with the systems Architecture designed in I would suggest the designers are going for a vessel that is designed to be refitted unlike the Type23 they was meant to be discarded and replaced instead of refit. I would say some of the network stuff will change and in 10 years they could be refitting the system with fibre optics amongst other Items.

[ArmChairCivvy]

with the systems Architecture designed in I would suggest the designers are going for a vessel that is designed to be refitted unlike the Type23 they was meant to be discarded and replaced instead of refit. I would say some of the network stuff will change and in 10 years they could be refitting the system with fibre optics amongst other Items.

I thought fibre optics were already going in, computing for various uses (around the ship) being sourced from a single blade server farm. Where the upgradability will probably fall short is using the ship's "engine as a weapon", ie. sourcing, storing , pulsing and thermally managing the needs for any directed energy weapons.
- I would bet those coming around (not just experimentally) within 10 yrs vs the predicted hull life of 30 yrs

[Ron5]

Ah the dreaded aneurysm mines 4.4 cm at the moment.

The figures for the T26 don't seem too bad if you divide 11.6 bn by 20 years I suspect if that's the price for 13 ships then its a good one. But that depends on the equipment fit if they end up fitted for but not with like the T45 then BAE should be ashamed.

Huh? Would that be the same Bae that's pointing out that a) building at one site instead of two, b) ordering them more than 3 at a time, and c) building them at a faster rate, would save a shed load of money??? To be told no, no and no, by HMG??

You really think that Bae is entirely to blame for the decades long clusterf*k known as the Nato then European joint frigate that finally ended up with a compromised T45 design & a cripplingly expensive PAAMS system that can't fire any other missiles other than French ???

Good grief charlie brown.

[ArmChairCivvy]

BTW, in this embedded video
http://www.royalnavy.mod.uk/news-and-la ... 16-type-26
the two masts between the funnel and the hangar caught my eye. Have they been re-specced (why would that be?) - or have I just not been looking carefully enough before?

Two other points in the video: reconfirming the helo pad being big enough for a Chinook (and the reverse for the hangar, even though the term used is "to support" rather than "to fit in").
- the other point being the illustration of how cold launch of Seaceptor from mid-ship; without that feature being available the total missile load would be significantly less. Also no mention of any quadpacking into the bigger tubes anymore; in a way that would be a waste as strike length silos equates to twice the length of the local air-defence missile.

[ArmChairCivvy]

http://defense-update.com/20130311_inte ... gjukvlViko

PAAMS being a member of a radar family, even though usually touted as a totally British and go-it-alone solution

[Ron5]

I can understand the life span of the ships but what of the various sensors and equipment, would a T26 ten years from now need to be outfitted with new technologies as as present technology is no longer cutting edge and is not worth transfering .

Lift out the main gun, pop in a laser, Bob's your dad's brother.

Merlin's being upgraded as we speak, radar is brand new, sonar systems just had an update I think. New AA missile & system. What else do you want?

[Tony Williams]

I can understand the life span of the ships but what of the various sensors and equipment, would a T26 ten years from now need to be outfitted with new technologies as as present technology is no longer cutting edge and is not worth transfering .

I hope so. I think that what is happening now with the T23 and T26 is eminently sensible: first fit new sensors and weapon systems (like Sea Ceptor) into existing ships to focus on getting them totally debugged. Then, when the existing ships need replacing, remove those tried and trusted systems from them and fit them into new hulls, thereby greatly reducing the cost of the new ships. This also spreads out the work for the shipyard, alternating between building new hulls and refitting old ships with new systems.

[marktigger]

they were saying laser weapons will be around soon for many years. How long has the Beoing 747 been flying the laser to take out Satelites or ICBM's ? a long time. And the current power requirements for them are uneconomic the type 27 or type 28 maybe?

[Gabriele]

Then, when the existing ships need replacing, remove those tried and trusted systems from them and fit them into new hulls, thereby greatly reducing the cost of the new ships.

Then suggest a programme cost of 11.5 billion pounds and make the world gape in shock and wonder how much a Type 26 would cost if there was any major new developmental system on board / if a foreign country purchases one without having a Type 23 to strip for parts.

There is almost literally nothing new on the Type 26 as currently envisaged. It is a cost-cutting compromise from the CODLOG propulsion up, yet 11.5 billion.

Sorry. Just can't get over that number.


From a Type 26 perspective:

Main radar - non developmental, transfer from T23
Navigation radars - non developmental, transfer from T23 (assuming the planned 2016 fleet-wide renewal goes ahead)
Sonar - non developmental, transfer from T23
CAMM - non developmental, transfer from T23, development costs covered by Complex Weapons budget
MK41 - new purchase, non developmental
Anti ship missile and ASW fit - ?????????? Nothing? Something?
Torpedo tubes - apparently deleted
Anti-torpedo decoy and passive array - non developmental, transfer from T23
Decoys - non developmental, transfer from T23
Propulsion - non developmental, CODLOG to save money and weight (hope we do not regret it bitterly in a few years)
EO/IR surveillance - non developmental, transfer from T23 (new programme started recently)
127 mm and automated ammunition handling - second hand refurbished turrets, new development for the ammo handling, new to RN service


Where does the frigging money go, i simply have no idea.

[Tony Williams]

Where does the frigging money go, i simply have no idea.

Me neither. As with the new OPVs.

The UK pays a high price for insisting that its warships are domestically designed and built.

[xav]

This is the little info I got at DSEI... take it with a pinch of salt however, I am trying to get it confirmed and get other questions answered (I am still trying to get in touch with the program director).

Displacement confirmed at around 6000 tons
Max speed confirmed at 28 knots
BAE is trying to pitch a new technology of ceramic armor around the citadel (bridge / CIC...) but RN is quite conservative and not sold to the idea.
8x sets of ASW kits are being ordered and only half of them will be fitted on T23.
Same thing, only half of Artisan radars will be cross decked.
Plan is to replace 1 T23 per year.

I hope to get more details and answers soon (but keep in mind that for the last couple years, BAE didn't wish to comment/answer detailed questions about T26)

[Gabriele]

This is the little info I got at DSEI... take it with a pinch of salt however, I am trying to get it confirmed and get other questions answered (I am still trying to get in touch with the program director).

Displacement confirmed at around 6000 tons
Max speed confirmed at 28 knots
BAE is trying to pitch a new technology of ceramic armor around the citadel (bridge / CIC...) but RN is quite conservative and not sold to the idea.
8x sets of ASW kits are being ordered and only half of them will be fitted on T23.
Same thing, only half of Artisan radars will be cross decked.
Plan is to replace 1 T23 per year.

I hope to get more details and answers soon (but keep in mind that for the last couple years, BAE didn't wish to comment/answer detailed questions about T26)

Only half of the Artisan will be cross-decked...? That's curious. I could understand buying 1 - 2 extra sets, so that you can avoid going down to 12 frigates by having to disarm a Type 23 before the first Type 26 is operational... but half? That sounds weird.

On armor, the Type 45 for one has been fitted with limited "belts" of armor in some areas, so the RN isn't entirely conservative either. I wouldn't be surprised if it was more a matter of BAE's cost not convincing the RN...

Do you know anything more on those "ASW kits"? Because the 2087 is a given, but the hull sonar fit and the weapon side of the kit are still question marks.