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Type 26 Frigate (City Class) (RN) [News Only]

Contains threads on Royal Navy equipment of the past, present and future.

Which Anti-Ship Missile Should be Selected for the Type 26?

Lockheed Martin LRASM
137
52%
Kongsberg NSM
61
23%
Boeing Harpoon Next Gen
40
15%
MBDA Exocet Blk III
19
7%
None (stick to guided ammo and FASGW from Helicopters)
8
3%
 
Total votes: 265

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shark bait
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Re: Type 26 Frigate (City Class) (RN) [News Only]

Postby shark bait » 30 Oct 2018, 10:05

Do they own the Vulcano now? Or do they just market it?
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RetroSicotte
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Re: Type 26 Frigate (City Class) (RN) [News Only]

Postby RetroSicotte » 30 Oct 2018, 10:29

shark bait wrote:Do they own the Vulcano now? Or do they just market it?

Think of it like how Lockheed is handling Type 26 in Canada. They are the front for its marketing, contracting, and likely manufacture. Leonardo is the design provider.

NickC
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Re: Type 26 Frigate (City Class) (RN) [News Only]

Postby NickC » 30 Oct 2018, 13:23

Think BAE Inc taken a license from Leonardo for the Vulcano 155mm shell as a possibility to replace the Lockheed Long Range Land Attack Projectile (LRLAP) shell used in the BAE Advanced Gun System fitted to the three USN Zumwalt NGFS destroyers, LRLAP which did not meet spec and costing ~$1M for each round, even USN found that too rich (Zumwalt programme cost $24B for the 3 ships and R&D).

Since cancellation Nov 2016 USN has made no move to replace the LRLAP, one problem with the AGS was it was specifically designed for the LRLAP and chamber and barrel twist rate non-standard and so unable to use artillery shells designed to NATO 155mm standard.

NickC
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Re: Type 26 Frigate (City Class) (RN) [News Only]

Postby NickC » 05 Nov 2018, 20:29

My reading of the 5th Nov MOD Defence Equipment Plan 2018 Fig. 22 quotes current T26 cost to completion as £4,242M for the three ships, with first current in service date Oct 2027. If exclude the 'Assessment and Demonstration Phase' BAE contracts of ~ £1.5B would give build cost of ~ £900 million each. Just don't understand how Japanese can build their new 6,000t 30FFM for ~ £400M and the T26 costing £900M, to me just too costly and would terminate programme at the three ships.

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.u ... NAL-v1.pdf

Ron5
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Re: Type 26 Frigate (City Class) (RN) [News Only]

Postby Ron5 » 06 Nov 2018, 00:11

Your "interpretation" is incorrect.

NickC
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Re: Type 26 Frigate (City Class) (RN) [News Only]

Postby NickC » 06 Nov 2018, 09:04

Ron5 wrote:Your "interpretation" is incorrect.


You may be right, it could be that for an apples to apples comparison the design costs are included in the Japanese 6,000t 30FFM cost at ~£400M and if so cost the T26 on same basis looking at £1,400M per ship, RN paying ~ £1B premium for first 3 ships, as said whichever way you look at the costs the T26 is just too costly and need to terminate programme at the 3 ships, a very sad indictment of the incompetence of MOD/RN which let the T26 grow like topsy.

Think Defence quote
"The weight and size of Type 26 has changed, and possibly will continue to change until the detailed design is frozen and steel cut. This original baseline was reportedly 141m long, displacing 6,850 tonnes and costing an estimated £500m each. As part of the ongoing cost/capability trade-offs, it was repeatedly reported that this cost was undesirable to the MoD and capabilities (and size) pared down to achieve a target cost of £250 million to £350 million each."

BAE in their T26 PR quoted 5,400t for a long time, now Australia Hunter quoted at 8,800t

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ArmChairCivvy
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Re: Type 26 Frigate (City Class) (RN) [News Only]

Postby ArmChairCivvy » 06 Nov 2018, 09:18

Contrary to 'folklore' about T31 being a rushed idea, the decision to to split the class in two (8+5) was taken in 2010, but seeing T-26 through the main gate took longer than anyone had expected
- letting the follow-on act 'bolt' before time was not permissible

Had it become known that a T23 successor will cost three-four times more, then defending that 8+5 split might have been an onerous task ;)
- sliding the ruler later, little by little, suits everyone involved better?

I will double post to "General" as these news haven't broken yet :D

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shark bait
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Re: Type 26 Frigate (City Class) (RN) [News Only]

Postby shark bait » 06 Nov 2018, 10:09

Ron5 wrote:Your "interpretation" is incorrect.


Do you have anything to corroborate that? The figures at the moment point to a billion pound frigate.
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Poiuytrewq
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Re: Type 26 Frigate (City Class) (RN) [News Only]

Postby Poiuytrewq » 06 Nov 2018, 11:26

NickC wrote:would give build cost of ~ £900 million each.
I have been estimating a T26 unit price (excluding R&D) for the first 8 hulls at ~£860m so your figure looks about right to me.

NickC
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Re: Type 26 Frigate (City Class) (RN) [News Only]

Postby NickC » 06 Nov 2018, 12:59

Lord West, former First Sea Lord, speaking in June said more urgency is needed in securing the work for the next five City-class warships, If there isn’t a ‘steady drum beat’ of orders for UK shipyards, the Labour peer warned overall costs could soar, with delays blighting the project.

Do not disagree but a faster build rate might save ~£10M? in shipyard overhead costs per ship, that's just noise in the build total cost of a T26 at ~ £900M each.

jonas
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Re: Type 26 Frigate (City Class) (RN) [News Only]

Postby jonas » 06 Nov 2018, 13:44

In regards to 'the defence equipment plan 2018, under 'Navy Command' I found this intriguing.

Quote
The Type 26 Frigate programme remains on
track to deliver within contract, although early
engineering issues have absorbed some
schedule float.
Unquote

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ArmChairCivvy
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Re: Type 26 Frigate (City Class) (RN) [News Only]

Postby ArmChairCivvy » 06 Nov 2018, 13:49

jonas wrote: although early
engineering issues have absorbed some
schedule float.


Just look at how much 'float' they have and 'some' out of it is nothing :)

Ron5
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Re: Type 26 Frigate (City Class) (RN) [News Only]

Postby Ron5 » 06 Nov 2018, 17:21

shark bait wrote:
Ron5 wrote:Your "interpretation" is incorrect.


Do you have anything to corroborate that? The figures at the moment point to a billion pound frigate.


Hint: the report is about the allocation of the 10 year funding plan. Not a program by program costing. Anyone that claims they can extract UPC is ether a fool or a troll.

Ron5
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Re: Type 26 Frigate (City Class) (RN) [News Only]

Postby Ron5 » 06 Nov 2018, 17:22

Poiuytrewq wrote:
NickC wrote:would give build cost of ~ £900 million each.
I have been estimating a T26 unit price (excluding R&D) for the first 8 hulls at ~£860m so your figure looks about right to me.


You mean "guessing".

matt00773
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Re: Type 26 Frigate (City Class) (RN) [News Only]

Postby matt00773 » 07 Nov 2018, 07:57

Teresa May calls Justin Trudeau on Type 26 selection (and other things) for Canadian Royal Navy:

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/read ... ember-2018

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ArmChairCivvy
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Re: Type 26 Frigate (City Class) (RN) [News Only]

Postby ArmChairCivvy » 07 Nov 2018, 08:14

matt00773 wrote:Teresa May calls Justin Trudeau on Type 26 selection (and other things) for Canadian Royal Navy:

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/read ... ember-2018


A pure coincidence that T-26 is mentioned as the first item. The real beef is in keeping the G7 relevant (ref: G20 coming up soon)
- Great Power competition is back; the rest of the G7 is worried about "the elephants fighting" as the grass :D will suffer
- in this context Trump's musings about inviting Russia back become understandable (though the timing might not be right... would be like receiving a medal and being invited for tea - for bad behaviour!)

jonas
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Re: Type 26 Frigate (City Class) (RN) [News Only]

Postby jonas » 07 Nov 2018, 09:22

ArmChairCivvy wrote:
jonas wrote: although early
engineering issues have absorbed some
schedule float.


Just look at how much 'float' they have and 'some' out of it is nothing :)


Yes, I guess it's called hedging your bets. :shh:

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hovematlot
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Re: Type 26 Frigate (City Class) (RN) [News Only]

Postby hovematlot » 07 Nov 2018, 21:37

Series of tweets today from Bae revealing their new Combat Management System. I'm assuming this will be fitted to the T26?
bae1a.jpg

bae2a.jpg

bae3a.jpg

bae4a.jpg
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Ron5
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Re: Type 26 Frigate (City Class) (RN) [News Only]

Postby Ron5 » 07 Nov 2018, 22:57

Hopefully beaten in service by those on the Type 31's.

Quick question: after reading the tweets, whats the difference between INTeGen and INTeACT ?

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Re: Type 26 Frigate (City Class) (RN) [News Only]

Postby Ron5 » 07 Nov 2018, 23:02

Caption contest # 325:

bae1a cropped.jpg
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SKB
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Re: Type 26 Frigate (City Class) (RN) [News Only]

Postby SKB » 08 Nov 2018, 00:10

Ron5 wrote:Caption contest # 325:

bae1a cropped.jpg

"Can I have a P please, Bob?"

matt00773
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Re: Type 26 Frigate (City Class) (RN) [News Only]

Postby matt00773 » 12 Nov 2018, 05:12

PM Teresa May to announce the name of a T26 as HMS London in a speech today:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/ ... ei-skripal

HMS Glasgow
HMS Cardiff
HMS Belfast
HMS Birmingham
HMS London

Scimitar54
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Re: Type 26 Frigate (City Class) (RN) [News Only]

Postby Scimitar54 » 12 Nov 2018, 06:17

Any takers for Edinburgh, Swansea & Londonderry for the last three?

matt00773
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Re: Type 26 Frigate (City Class) (RN) [News Only]

Postby matt00773 » 12 Nov 2018, 06:48

Scimitar54 wrote:Any takers for Edinburgh, Swansea & Londonderry for the last three?
Londonderry would be a political no no. Newcastle, Leeds/Sheffield, Manchester/Liverpool would be my approximation.

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SKB
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Re: Type 26 Frigate (City Class) (RN) [News Only]

Postby SKB » 12 Nov 2018, 10:29

Ugh. London. Crap name and a crap city. :mrgreen:


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