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Type 26 Frigate (City Class) (RN) [News Only]

Contains threads on Royal Navy equipment of the past, present and future.

Which Anti-Ship Missile Should be Selected for the Type 26?

Lockheed Martin LRASM
143
52%
Kongsberg NSM
63
23%
Boeing Harpoon Next Gen
43
16%
MBDA Exocet Blk III
19
7%
None (stick to guided ammo and FASGW from Helicopters)
8
3%
 
Total votes: 276

Spinflight
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Re: Type 26 Frigate (City Class) (RN) [News Only]

Postby Spinflight » 22 May 2018, 14:07

If they're bright they'll effectively eliminate one bidder and make the other two fight over the terms and IP.

In a 'the committee wants more detail on the industrial benefits of x any y bid' sort of a way.

Mercator
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Re: Type 26 Frigate (City Class) (RN) [News Only]

Postby Mercator » 22 May 2018, 14:14

well it doesn't look like there's anything in tomorrow's papers. I've just watched a late-night review program and there's nothing about Sea 5000. So it doesn't look like any quick announcements are coming tonight.

jonas
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Re: Type 26 Frigate (City Class) (RN) [News Only]

Postby jonas » 22 May 2018, 14:59

Gabby Costigan CEO BAE Australia talks to sky news australia, interview on 21st May :-

https://www.skynews.com.au/details/_5787550229001

inch
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Re: Type 26 Frigate (City Class) (RN) [News Only]

Postby inch » 22 May 2018, 16:03

Probably keep dragging it on qnd on for a few mts ,wouldnt surprise me if it autumn before they anounce the winning design .let the contenders sweat it out and hopefully they up there pqckage

CameronPerson
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Re: Type 26 Frigate (City Class) (RN) [News Only]

Postby CameronPerson » 22 May 2018, 17:29

New article on the competition from Save the Royal Navy, here it states that the results will be announced in June.. Janes was under the impression it would be this week. But still the midpoint of the year hasn’t been reached yet so who knows

https://www.savetheroyalnavy.org/austra ... t-success/

CameronPerson
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Re: Type 26 Frigate (City Class) (RN) [News Only]

Postby CameronPerson » 08 Jun 2018, 13:56



They got a tour of the yard and saw the progress being made on keel units of Glasgow.. more importantly though, still no news of the SEA5000 winner, but apparently the decision has been made. I saw a tweet on May 31st saying the public announcement would be made in the coming week.. The end of the week has happened in Australia now so could be next week possibly? Is it usual for the companies to receive much advance notice as to whether they’ve won or do they usually find out just before the public announcement?

matt00773
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Re: Type 26 Frigate (City Class) (RN) [News Only]

Postby matt00773 » 08 Jun 2018, 14:04

CameronPerson wrote:https://twitter.com/geoff_searle/status/1003917910182649857?s=21

They got a tour of the yard and saw the progress being made on keel units of Glasgow.. more importantly though, still no news of the SEA5000 winner, but apparently the decision has been made. I saw a tweet on May 31st saying the public announcement would be made in the coming week.. The end of the week has happened in Australia now so could be next week possibly? Is it usual for the companies to receive much advance notice as to whether they’ve won or do they usually find out just before the public announcement?

Great to see the Australian contingent in UK learning about the T26 GCS and BAE digital shipyard technology. I believe the announcement on the SEA 5000 is due early next week - though this timing has changed several times.

It would be odd to have an announcement of the FREMM or F-100 winning whilst Australian suppliers were at BAE UK shipyards looking at T26 construction progress and BAE shipbuilding approaches...

jonas
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Re: Type 26 Frigate (City Class) (RN) [News Only]

Postby jonas » 08 Jun 2018, 14:47

CameronPerson wrote:https://twitter.com/geoff_searle/status/1003917910182649857?s=21

They got a tour of the yard and saw the progress being made on keel units of Glasgow.. more importantly though, still no news of the SEA5000 winner, but apparently the decision has been made. I saw a tweet on May 31st saying the public announcement would be made in the coming week.. The end of the week has happened in Australia now so could be next week possibly? Is it usual for the companies to receive much advance notice as to whether they’ve won or do they usually find out just before the public announcement?


One of the comments on this tweet states that the Canadian decision on its future combat ship, has been delayed by at least 18 months. Can anyone throw any light on this claim, as the only delay I have seen quoted 3 months, as below from 'Janes'

Quote
New acquisition procedure further delays CSC decision
Ian Keddie, Toronto - IHS Jane's Defence Weekly
29 May 2018

A new naval acquisition procedure meant to ensure more complete bidder proposals will delay a planned decision on the Royal Canadian Navy’s (RCN) future warship for another three months, the Canadian government has said.

Public Services and Procurement Canada (PSPC) originally planned on announcing a winning bid for the Canadian Surface Combatant (CSC) programme in the second quarter of 2018, but the PSPC now expects this decision to be made later in the year.

The delay is a result of complications stemming from an amendment to the request for proposals (RFP) that requires greater feedback between potential bidders and the government, and adds a new acquisition wrinkle the PSPC could use for other future programmes.
Unquote

matt00773
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Re: Type 26 Frigate (City Class) (RN) [News Only]

Postby matt00773 » 08 Jun 2018, 15:31

jonas wrote:One of the comments on this tweet states that the Canadian decision on its future combat ship, has been delayed by at least 18 months. Can anyone throw any light on this claim, as the only delay I have seen quoted 3 months, as below from 'Janes'
I think the 18 months delay comment is misguided and I've not seen that officially stated anywhere. The last Canadian government statement about the CSC procurement was that all three bidders had failed to meet some of the requirements for the programme and that bidders would be given a chance to address this before resubmitting.

http://nationalpost.com/news/canada/new ... quirements

The amendment to the RFP process stated in your quoted article refers to a new "cure" phase whereby any failed bids have a chance to address compliance with requirements by changing their bids - which is the process currently taking place. What we don't know is if any of the bids have issues complying with any "mandatory" requirements, which may be difficult to address. If any bids don't meet "mandatory" requirements after the "cure" phase these are immediately discounted from the competition. Any remaining bids are evaluated according to assessment criteria - of which not meeting "non mandatory" requirements plays a part.

http://www.tpsgc-pwgsc.gc.ca/app-acq/am ... 7-eng.html

inch
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Re: Type 26 Frigate (City Class) (RN) [News Only]

Postby inch » 08 Jun 2018, 16:04

does anybody know if the australian suppliers are visiting navantia then fremm after the bae visit .ie doing all 3 contenders yards whilst over this part of the world ,kinda makes sense if they don't know who got it yet or is it only suppliers tied up with the type26 bae bid ?.thanks

matt00773
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Re: Type 26 Frigate (City Class) (RN) [News Only]

Postby matt00773 » 08 Jun 2018, 16:38

inch wrote:does anybody know if the australian suppliers are visiting navantia then fremm after the bae visit .ie doing all 3 contenders yards whilst over this part of the world ,kinda makes sense if they don't know who got it yet or is it only suppliers tied up with the type26 bae bid ?.thanks
The trade mission is for BAE UK, Thales UK, and Rheinmetall in Germany only. There's also a trip to Bourges, France for a more general overview on defence opportunties. Fincantieri and Navantia are not part of the trip.

http://www.manmonthly.com.au/news/austr ... es-europe/

matt00773
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Re: Type 26 Frigate (City Class) (RN) [News Only]

Postby matt00773 » 08 Jun 2018, 16:46

Article on two Australian BAE engineers who were working in Glasgow to develop skills and help 'Australianise' the T26 for the SEA 5000 bid:

https://www.createdigital.org.au/young- ... bat-ships/

inch
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Re: Type 26 Frigate (City Class) (RN) [News Only]

Postby inch » 08 Jun 2018, 21:43

Cheers matt00773

Ron5
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Re: Type 26 Frigate (City Class) (RN) [News Only]

Postby Ron5 » 08 Jun 2018, 22:52

jonas wrote:One of the comments on this tweet states that the Canadian decision on its future combat ship, has been delayed by at least 18 months. Can anyone throw any light on this claim, as the only delay I have seen quoted 3 months, as below from 'Janes'


I was under the impression they had delayed so they could see how the US FFG(X) program worked out first. Now I've written that, I don't remember why I think that.

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Halidon
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Re: Type 26 Frigate (City Class) (RN) [News Only]

Postby Halidon » 09 Jun 2018, 02:22

Ron5 wrote:
jonas wrote:One of the comments on this tweet states that the Canadian decision on its future combat ship, has been delayed by at least 18 months. Can anyone throw any light on this claim, as the only delay I have seen quoted 3 months, as below from 'Janes'


I was under the impression they had delayed so they could see how the US FFG(X) program worked out first. Now I've written that, I don't remember why I think that.

As appealing as the thought is I don't think I've seen anything official as to that effect, and US-Canadian relations are not exactly peaking at the moment. They have their own budgetary amd industrial issues to grapple with, I'd look to those first to explain a delay.

matt00773
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Re: Type 26 Frigate (City Class) (RN) [News Only]

Postby matt00773 » 14 Jun 2018, 04:40

Regarding the trade visit by Australian businesses last week, I just realise there's a photo which also shows us the progress of HMS Glasgow:


jonas
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Re: Type 26 Frigate (City Class) (RN) [News Only]

Postby jonas » 14 Jun 2018, 14:39

No wonder these vessels are costing an arm and a leg. The snail like pace that government has decreed they be built at, is nothing short of farcical. After a year of build there is not a great deal to show for it, no doubt the unions are happy as it gives them long term employment.

Enigmatically
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Re: Type 26 Frigate (City Class) (RN) [News Only]

Postby Enigmatically » 15 Jun 2018, 14:50

jonas wrote:No wonder these vessels are costing an arm and a leg. The snail like pace that government has decreed they be built at, is nothing short of farcical. After a year of build there is not a great deal to show for it, no doubt the unions are happy as it gives them long term employment.

I'm delighted you can tell all that from one photo of one block under construction less than a year after contract award

You can help me, what can you read from that photo of state of the other blocks?
How is the design proceeding towards reached the required maturity for the hundreds of thousands of cables?
How are the marine systems doing on the design reviews?
Which combat systems have made adequate progress towards factory acceptance tests?
Which of the millions of parts have satisfactory maturity?
Are the numbers of issues being identified from zonal reviews more or less than you expected?

A warship is not just a hull. It is not even a hull with some stuff added. Everything nowadays is interlinked

Ron5
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Re: Type 26 Frigate (City Class) (RN) [News Only]

Postby Ron5 » 15 Jun 2018, 16:44

Enigmatically wrote:A warship is not just a hull. It is not even a hull with some stuff added. Everything nowadays is interlinked


@ACC told you so, na na na nah na

jonas
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Re: Type 26 Frigate (City Class) (RN) [News Only]

Postby jonas » 16 Jun 2018, 08:43

Enigmatically wrote:
jonas wrote:No wonder these vessels are costing an arm and a leg. The snail like pace that government has decreed they be built at, is nothing short of farcical. After a year of build there is not a great deal to show for it, no doubt the unions are happy as it gives them long term employment.

I'm delighted you can tell all that from one photo of one block under construction less than a year after contract award

You can help me, what can you read from that photo of state of the other blocks?
How is the design proceeding towards reached the required maturity for the hundreds of thousands of cables?
How are the marine systems doing on the design reviews?
Which combat systems have made adequate progress towards factory acceptance tests?
Which of the millions of parts have satisfactory maturity?
Are the numbers of issues being identified from zonal reviews more or less than you expected?

A warship is not just a hull. It is not even a hull with some stuff added. Everything nowadays is interlinked



Before jumping in and lambasting me, please read what I said instead of what you thought I said, Where did I mention that I was refering to the photo of one block, which as you rightly say shows very little.

So after a year we actually have two blocks joined together, not a snails pace then after we where originally told the drumbeat would be a vessel every two years. So refresh my memory on the new timetable instead of taking my remarks out of context. Nothing you have stated above is anything new, and would have been taken into account in the original build time frame.

As asked in Parliament :-
Quote
“Can the minister please explain why it will take at least 8 years to build the first Type 26 frigate and what steps are you going to take to accelerate delivery of these warships, critical to our national defence?”
Unquote.

Yes I realise that the 8yrs mentioned is the time to operational capability, and not actual build time so please don't use semantics to justify the still inordinate delay.

I suppose you will roll out the answer that our priority is now the T31 (design as yet to even be confirmed) in favour of the much more capable T26.

https://www.savetheroyalnavy.org/why-wi ... ntil-2027/

seaspear
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Re: Type 26 Frigate (City Class) (RN) [News Only]

Postby seaspear » 16 Jun 2018, 10:50

Another question may have been How long if successful in the tendering of sea5oo would the first ship have been built in comparison?

Enigmatically
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Re: Type 26 Frigate (City Class) (RN) [News Only]

Postby Enigmatically » 16 Jun 2018, 11:44

Jonas, you said:
After a year of build there is not a great deal to show for it

So, what are you referring to as not much to show if not the photo?
And the question then remains, what do you know of all the other work?

I agree that the interval between ships could be less, but that is nothing to do with the time taken to design, develop, build, integrate and test the first

Simon82
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Re: Type 26 Frigate (City Class) (RN) [News Only]

Postby Simon82 » 16 Jun 2018, 14:02

I suspect the focus was on the first sentence and not intended as a criticism of the shipbuilders themselves.
jonas wrote:
No wonder these vessels are costing an arm and a leg. The snail like pace that government has decreed they be built at, is nothing short of farcical.

If the government had shown a little more confidence in the the Type 26 rather than slashing the required number and ordering them in such a piecemeal fashion I’m certain the unit cost could have been brought down substantially.
Alright, they the Type 26s are expensive, but they are designed to fulfill a difficult role, a role that requires an expensive top-end ship. Cutting individual unit costs could be done, but only if you could crew and pay for a vast fleet of single-purpose specialised vessels as the Royal Navy historically did. However without a major rethink of defence organisation and funding those days have gone and our modern vessels must be multi-purpose, lightly crewed, highly automated, long-legged ‘cruisers’ and with that comes an unavoidable high purchase price per vessel.

Also,what kind of message does it send to the Australian and Canadian governments when the British government is constantly back-peddling on the Type 26 order and is so desperate to trade its capabilities for the paper promises of the next low-cost frigate even though it’s currently little more than a sketch on the back of a fag packet!

I’ll stop ranting now.

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Poiuytrewq
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Re: Type 26 Frigate (City Class) (RN) [News Only]

Postby Poiuytrewq » 16 Jun 2018, 14:19

Simon82 wrote:If the government had shown a little more confidence in the the Type 26 rather than slashing the required number and ordering them in such a piecemeal fashion I’m certain the unit cost could have been brought down substantially.
It would be interesting to know how much the five GP T26's would have cost bearing in mind the increased speed of the building process.
Also,what kind of message does it send to the Australian and Canadian governments....
A very poor one and if we actually had T26's hitting the water now I expect chances of success would have been massively higher.
I’ll stop ranting now.
Carry on, I was thoroughly enjoying it :thumbup:

Spinflight
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Re: Type 26 Frigate (City Class) (RN) [News Only]

Postby Spinflight » 19 Jun 2018, 23:17

I'm hearing that the T26 has won SEA5000..

News to be released soon.


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