Type 26 Frigate (City Class) (RN) [News Only]

[Gabriele]

Either that or the 7th Astute. Don't think there is anything else they could name.

[Gabriele]

HMS Cardiff she is.

[CameronPerson]

Did not see that one coming on St David’s Day

[xav]

Second Royal Navy City-class Type 26 Frigate to be Named HMS Cardiff

Admiral Sir Philip Jones, Royal Navy First Sea Lord and Chief of Naval Staff, announced that one of the new Type 26 frigates will be named HMS Cardiff. The third to be named in the City Class of eight brand new, cutting-edge, anti-submarine warfare frigates, HMS Cardiff will provide advanced protection for the likes of the UK’s nuclear deterrent and Queen Elizabeth Class aircraft carriers.

The First Sea Lord said:
This next generation of frigates will encompass the very latest innovations and technological advances to deliver a world class anti-submarine warfare capability within a globally deployable and highly versatile platform.

The name HMS Cardiff brings with it a proud history. A century ago the light cruiser HMS Cardiff famously led the German High Seas Fleet into internment at Scapa Flow at the end of the First World War.

The last HMS Cardiff, a Type 42 destroyer, also distinguished herself on operations around the world, including the 1982 Falklands campaign, the 1991 Gulf War and service in the Adriatic during the 1999 crisis in Kosovo.

http://www.navyrecognition.com/index.ph ... rdiff.html

Strange way of naming ships... I got tricked! I reported in September that HMS Belfast would be the 2nd ship because it was the 2nd name to be revealed... Is there any reason for naming the ships "in no particular order" ?

[ArmChairCivvy]

Is there any reason for naming the ships "in no particular order" ?

There is order to it: the strength of separatist feeling (needing appeasing by non-monetary measures)
Name Abbr. Capital
England ENG London
Northern Ireland NIR Belfast
Scotland SCO Edinburgh
Wales (Cymru) WAL Cardiff

Edinburgh got pipped to the post (relative population, shipbuilding connection), and London bumped off the list altogether as the order is for 3 (for now)... and the feeling in NIR (for the time ) is the opposite to separatist

[dmereifield]

The MK41 VLS's have been ordered:

"The announcement also comes as BAE Systems have awarded Lockheed Martin a contract to equip the Type 26 with the only system of its kind capable of launching anti-air, anti-submarine, surface-to-surface and strike-length missiles. Three MK 41 Vertical Launching Systems will be fitted on each ship. The Royal Navy has ordered an initial nine modules for the first three ships, including HMS Cardiff"

https://www.royalnavy.mod.uk/news-and-l ... ms-cardiff

So 3 modules per ship, doe each module contain 8 silos?

[jonas]

The MK41 VLS's have been ordered:

"The announcement also comes as BAE Systems have awarded Lockheed Martin a contract to equip the Type 26 with the only system of its kind capable of launching anti-air, anti-submarine, surface-to-surface and strike-length missiles. Three MK 41 Vertical Launching Systems will be fitted on each ship. The Royal Navy has ordered an initial nine modules for the first three ships, including HMS Cardiff"

https://www.royalnavy.mod.uk/news-and-l ... ms-cardiff

So 3 modules per ship, doe each module contain 8 silos?

The basic module contains 8 cells, so one would expect so;-

"single purpose launchers on surface ships. Installed below deck, MK 41 VLS adds significant enhanced performance in ... MK 41 VLS is currently deployed in 13 different config- urations, ranging from a single module with eight-cells to 16 modules with 122- cells. The basic module is available in three sizes: Strike, Tactical ..."

https://www.lockheedmartin.com/content/ ... tsheet.pdf

[dmereifield]

The MK41 VLS's have been ordered:

"The announcement also comes as BAE Systems have awarded Lockheed Martin a contract to equip the Type 26 with the only system of its kind capable of launching anti-air, anti-submarine, surface-to-surface and strike-length missiles. Three MK 41 Vertical Launching Systems will be fitted on each ship. The Royal Navy has ordered an initial nine modules for the first three ships, including HMS Cardiff"

https://www.royalnavy.mod.uk/news-and-l ... ms-cardiff

So 3 modules per ship, doe each module contain 8 silos?

The basic module contains 8 cells, so one would expect so;-

"single purpose launchers on surface ships. Installed below deck, MK 41 VLS adds significant enhanced performance in ... MK 41 VLS is currently deployed in 13 different config- urations, ranging from a single module with eight-cells to 16 modules with 122- cells. The basic module is available in three sizes: Strike, Tactical ..."

https://www.lockheedmartin.com/content/ ... tsheet.pdf

Thanks. I didn't notice the cost er module - if anyone sees it, or has any other info, it'd appreciate it.

[abc123]

The MK41 VLS's have been ordered:

"The announcement also comes as BAE Systems have awarded Lockheed Martin a contract to equip the Type 26 with the only system of its kind capable of launching anti-air, anti-submarine, surface-to-surface and strike-length missiles. Three MK 41 Vertical Launching Systems will be fitted on each ship. The Royal Navy has ordered an initial nine modules for the first three ships, including HMS Cardiff"

https://www.royalnavy.mod.uk/news-and-l ... ms-cardiff

So 3 modules per ship, doe each module contain 8 silos?

The basic module contains 8 cells, so one would expect so;-

"single purpose launchers on surface ships. Installed below deck, MK 41 VLS adds significant enhanced performance in ... MK 41 VLS is currently deployed in 13 different config- urations, ranging from a single module with eight-cells to 16 modules with 122- cells. The basic module is available in three sizes: Strike, Tactical ..."

https://www.lockheedmartin.com/content/ ... tsheet.pdf

Thanks. I didn't notice the cost er module - if anyone sees it, or has any other info, it'd appreciate it.

20- 25 mil. USD IIRC.

[xav]

So strike length or not for Type 26 ?

Lockheed Martin to Supply MK 41 VLS for Royal Navy's Type 26 Frigate

BAE Systems awarded Lockheed Martin a contract to equip the Royal Navy's new Type 26 Global Combat Ship with the MK 41 Vertical Launching System (VLS). The MK 41 VLS is the only system capable of launching anti-air, anti-submarine, surface-to-surface and strike-length missiles. Once integrated with the Type 26, the MK 41 VLS will offer the Royal Navy unparalleled flexibility and capability.

http://www.navyrecognition.com/index.ph ... igate.html

[SKB]

Apparently, HMS Dragon is carrying the T42 HMS Cardiff nameplate in her wardroom!

[NickC]

Based on the very recent quote below cost of Mk 41 VLS Strike length, 8 cell units X 3, = $52.5/ ~£39 million per T26.
WASHINGTON, FEB. 20, 2018 - The State Department

The Government of Finland has requested a possible sale of four (4) Mk 41 Baseline VII Strike-Length Vertical Launching Systems.  Also included are spares, handling equipment, test equipment, operator manuals and technical documentation, U.S. Government and contractor engineering, training, technical, and logistical support services, and other related elements of logistical support.  The estimated total case value is $70 million.

From <http://www.dsca.mil/major-arms-sales/fi ... ng-systems>

[NickC]

ThyssenKrupp Marine Systems/Lürssen have been disqualified from bidding by the Federal Government for the four/six MKS-180 multimission combat frigates due to allegations and bribery plus problems with their new F125 which lists, overweight and systems integration problems.

TKMS/Lürssen were favourites, appears bidders remaining are German Naval Yards Kiel/BAE Systems with Type 26 variant and the Dutch-German team made up of Damen and the Blohm+Voss shipyard.

http://www.defense-aerospace.com/articl ... ender.html

[Lord Jim]

I like how the article refers to "The next generation of German battleships".

[shark bait]

Why does the T-26 need 24 VL silos if it is not going to fire Sea Ceptor from them. Seems an awful lot for weapons systems we haven't even decided on?

The first one wont be operational for 7 years, there is no point deciding what to use now.

[ArmChairCivvy]

TKMS/Lürssen were favourites, appears bidders remaining are German Naval Yards Kiel/BAE Systems with Type 26 variant and the Dutch-German team made up of Damen and the Blohm+Voss shipyard.

http://www.defense-aerospace.com/articl ... ender.html

Wait for the song by "the fat lady"... as the write-up was based on a longer piece in Handelsblatt, which says (among other things):
"The other bidders also face obstacles, however. For example, the German Naval Yards consortium, which includes Britain’s BAE Systems, has never built a ship as big and powerful as the MKS 180, which is said to be the most powerful warship ordered by the navy since the end of World War II.

It is likely the final decision on the awarding of the contract will be political. It is still not clear who will be defense minister in the cabinet of the new coalition government between Chancellor Angela Merkel’s conservatives and the Social Democratic Party. But their agreement to form a government stipulated that production of surface ships should become a key domestic technology."

[NickC]

Why does the T-26 need 24 VL silos if it is not going to fire Sea Ceptor from them. Seems an awful lot for weapons systems we haven't even decided on?

The first one wont be operational for 7 years, there is no point deciding what to use now.

I think your slightly optimistic its 9 years before Type 26 becomes operational in 2027, 10/11 year build, MOD shooting for a new world record in slowest build of a frigate.

House of Commons Committee of Public Accounts, Delivering Carrier Strike 2017–19 Report, printed 10 January 2018

"Changes are also planned to the fleet of frigates, with the new Type 26 replacing the fleet of Type 23s currently in service. These vessels perform an antisubmarine role that is necessary to support the carriers in use. The Department recently signed a contract to buy an initial tranche of Type 26s, the first of which is expected to enter service in 2027. The Department told us that it was confident that a capability gap would not emerge between the Type 23s being retired and the Type 26s coming into service, which could limit use of the carriers."

[ArmChairCivvy]

The Department recently signed a contract to buy an initial tranche of Type 26s, the first of which is expected to enter service in 2027

No wonder the next batch will only be signed for in the mid-20s
- aren't the T-23 GPs dropping like flies, one a year, so that by about 2027 they will all be gone?

House of Commons Committee of Public Accounts, Delivering Carrier Strike 2017–19 Report, printed 10 January 2018

- conveniently, the excerpt from the report only talks about gap is ASW, not between the two classes (as it will be one class replaced by two)

[Caribbean]

According to wiki, 5 will be gone by 2027. The number 5 seems familiar from somewhere - just can't think where

[Aethulwulf]

The phrase 'enter in service' is open to wide interpretations. Just look at the QEC:

2017 Commissioned into RN
2018 IOC in LPH role
2020 IOC in carrier strike role
2021 First operational deployment
2024 FOC carrier strike

On which of these dates will QEC enter into service?

I believe the first T26 will be handed over to the RN around 2024, but her first operational deployment and FOC will not be until around 2027.

[shark bait]

Whatever date you pick, it's a long time. Wouldn't be surprised to see it enter service without its full range of capabilities operational either, such a complex platform will have a phased entry. A decision on cruise missiles is not needed for a while.

[donald_of_tokyo]

In case of T45: from wiki, sorry

Daring:
- Laid down: 28 March 2003
- Launched: 1 February 2006
- On 18 July 2007 Daring sailed on the first set of sea trials (Stage 1.1)....
- Daring was formally commissioned on 23 July 2009 .... Daring was declared officially "in service" one year later, on 31 July 2010.[35]
Daring fired her first Sea Viper missile in May 2011 during a test launch in the Outer Hebrides, after years of trials. ...
On 6 January 2012, the Royal Navy announced that Daring would leave Portsmouth on 11 January 2012 to undertake her first mission, a deployment to the Persian Gulf...

Dauntless:
Dauntless was commissioned on 3 June 2010 ... The MoD confirmed on 1 October 2010 that she had completed the first Sea Viper firing on a Hebridean firing range earlier in the week,[22] and the ship was accepted into service on 16 November the same year.[23]
In May 2011, Dauntless took part in Exercise Saxon Warrior in the Western Approaches, culminating in a so-called 'Thursday War'.[24]....

------
- "Sea Trail", "Commissioning" and "accepted into service" is different.
- first of class ship does have longer trial period, but in case of T45, it was 1 year. (Although Daring entered service without Sea Viper firing.

I remember someone said, 1st T26 will be commissioned 2025, and enter service by 2027, but I guess it is not an official anything. (My guess, is, laid down 2017, launch late 2021, 1st sea trial early 2023, commission 2025, in service 2027, for example??)

[donald_of_tokyo]

Whatever date you pick, it's a long time. Wouldn't be surprised to see it enter service without its full range of capabilities operational either, such a complex platform will have a phased entry. A decision on cruise missiles is not needed for a while.

But, I7m afraid lack of such decision suggests that land attack missile is not yet "funded" = not included in the 3.7B GBP cost. And, RN even thought about cutting Harpoon, less hope for land attack missile, I guess.

My 2nd point is, TLAM production will end within a few years. Its successor will be never as cheap as TLAM, at least for ten years or so. I will not be surprised if next generation land attack missile is at least 4 time (or even 10 times) expensive than TLAM, especially if it is French-UK built.

I would rather be happy to fill, for example, the first 4 hulls' VLS with TLAM block 4, and then think later. This will give RN not 7 years, but 14 years or even more to "think". TLAM will be used even in 2030's, because US Navy bought huge amount of them recently.

[shark bait]

I suspect it is unfunded, 10 years could be 3+ defense reviews away, so much could change, its unreasonable commit serious resources to the T26's cruise missiles now.

I wouldn't be surprised if there are none until the Anglo-French missile comes into service.

[RetroSicotte]

There was 7 years between Type 45 entering service and them being equipped with Harpoons.

There are going to be about 6 years between Type 26 entering service and the projected entry of the new missile. So don't think they won't.

Unless they're buying TLAMs, ASMs and ASROCs from the US, there isn't anything going in those silos for almost a decade.