Type 26 Frigate (City Class) (RN) [News Only]

[Pongoglo]

Hangar roof.

We could put them in the same place as in the Aussie design, maybe a little further aft as we have the additional 24 CAMM cells directly aft of the funnel?

T26 Harpoon.jpg

[Ron5]

Yes, that's what I'm saying. Hangar roof. Or if you want to be more particular, mission bay roof.

[R686]

http://www.baesystems.com/en-aus/articl ... e-frigates

[Jake1992]

How much would it cost for any other nation to buy the licance rights for the T26 ?
In the article above it states that we would transfer technical design work worth 1.5bn Aus dollars, will we get close to that ?

[Ron5]

The UK is giving it to Australia for free.

[NickC]

Type 26 Canada, looks a strong team for the Canada's Combat Ship with high Canadian percentage content, BAE Systems Type 26, CAE, Lockheed Martin Canada, L3 Technologies, MDA and Ultra Electronics.

"OTTAWA, Ontario --- Two days prior to the procurement closure date, Lockheed Martin Canada has confirmed delivery of the proposal for the Canadian Surface Combatant (CSC) program signifying that the acquisition has moved to the next critical phase"

It implies LMC is leading the team, shades of LCS Freedom.

CAE training systems integrator CAE is headquartered in Canada and has employees in 15 locations across the country.
Lockheed Martin Canada with the CMS 330 Combat Management System.
L3 MAPPS, L3 MAS, L3 Communication Systems Canada and L3 WESCAM, systems integration support, and through life in service support to the team in a number of areas including integrated communications, electro optic and infrared sensors, torpedo handling systems, and integrated platform management systems.
MDA one of Canada's leading space and defence companies providing world-class operational CSC capability, focusses primarily in the Communications and the Surveillance and Intelligence sectors.
Ultra Electronics, Dartmouth, Nova Scotia design and developed underwater warfare products to this uniquely assembled team to deliver Canada's future surface combatant, hull mounted sonar, towed active and passive arrays, sonar sensors, and underwater acoustics.

http://www.defense-aerospace.com/articl ... ition.html

[Defiance]

It implies LMC is leading the team, shades of LCS Freedom.

It looks better if you've got a national company in front. It looks like a good team, particularly pleased they've got LMC on side.

[Ron5]

AFAIK, Lockheed Martin Canada had zero to do with LCS.

[ArmChairCivvy]

particularly pleased they've got LMC on side

Shades of their frigate refurb, LMC modifying the Saab CMS for use on them (and now the same onto the new class?).

[Defiance]

particularly pleased they've got LMC on side

Shades of their frigate refurb, LMC modifying the Saab CMS for use on them (and now the same onto the new class?).

Exactly this. Well placed current Canadian naval systems integrator with a established precense in country, 2 solid characteristics to have as part of an export bid.

[shark bait]

A few sources on twitter are punting the T26 as the front runner, apparently they've done a great job getting lots of Canadian firms on board supplying Canadian kit, which appears to be the key to winning most contracts these days.

Lots of Canadian kit, plus a very flexible and a presumably technically superior hull, its a very attractive offer, just depends if Canada, unlike the UK, is willing to put its money where its mouth is.

[Opinion3]

So what is the betting that the T26 sells better than the T31e

[Cooper]

So what is the betting that the T26 sells better than the T31e

We might actually make some money on T31e sales though, countries who might want that level of naval ship don't tend to have their own construction facilities.

From what I can see, we're practically just selling the engineering blueprints for the T26 to anyone that wants them, with very little work coming back to the UK.

..we're turning into the French, in order to secure sales

[RetroSicotte]

So what is the betting that the T26 sells better than the T31e

We might actually make some money on T31e sales though, countries who might want that level of naval ship don't tend to have their own construction facilities.

From what I can see, we're practically just selling the engineering blueprints for the T26 to anyone that wants them, with very little work coming back to the UK.

..we're turning into the French, in order to secure sales

Better than no sales.

[matt00773]

Story on Breaking Defense on Type 26 suitability for US FFG(X) frigate programme:

https://breakingdefense.com/2017/11/can ... ate-fight/

[NickC]

re type 26/lmc cms 330 - canadian surface combatant bid.

lmc cms wins include the seven halifax hcm/felex, halifax class modernisation/frigate life extension completed end 2016, 2014 updates to the two anzac meko 200 frigates, chile type 23 2017 updating its three with cms330 and canadian artic ops plus one of three cms down selected (others atlas & saab) for the four finish squadron 2020 corvettes.
the hcm/flex cost c$4.3b, the main cost driver was the lmc cms/combat system integration/in-service support at c$2b (£1.2b/7= ~£170m each and anzac c$180m(~£50m each).

if the halifax hcm/felex cms+ costing ~ £170m what is the cost of the type 26 bae systems cms costing, unlikely we will ever know, though seem have a monopoly on rn ships have then won any overseas contracts.

[shark bait]

Story on Breaking Defense on Type 26 suitability for US FFG(X) frigate programme:

https://breakingdefense.com/2017/11/can ... ate-fight/

I'll be socked if they pick one of the euro frigates........ it would be amazing if they took the T26.

[xav]

Story on Breaking Defense on Type 26 suitability for US FFG(X) frigate programme:

https://breakingdefense.com/2017/11/can ... ate-fight/

I'll be socked if they pick one of the euro frigates........ it would be amazing if they took the T26.

"France’s first two FREMM frigates, the Aquitaine and the Normandy, built by Italy’s Fincantieri."
seriously US defense media, covering US defense news 99% of the time... That ONE time a year they start talking about non US stuff... they mess it up...

[xav]

NovAtel’s GPS Anti-Jam Technology Selected for Royal Navy’s Type 26 Frigate

NovAtel announced that its GPS Anti-Jam Technology (GAJT) has been selected for the United Kingdom’s Type 26 frigates to meet a requirement as part of a protected navigation system. These vessels are 21st Century warships that will replace the Type 23 Frigate as the workhorse of the British Fleet, undertaking the Royal Navy's three core roles - warfighting, maritime security and international engagement - on the world stage.

GAJT protects GPS-based navigation and precise timing receivers from intentional jamming and accidental interference, ensuring that the satellite signals necessary to compute position and time are always available. It is a Commercial Off-the-Shelf (COTS) product, and comes in versions suitable for land, sea, fixed installations and smaller platforms such as Unmanned Aerial Vehicles (UAVs). Warships, military vehicles and platforms, networks and timing infrastructure can all benefit from the protection that GAJT provides. There is no need to replace GPS receivers already installed, as GAJT works with civil and military receivers including SAASM and M-Code.

https://www.navyrecognition.com/index.p ... igate.html

[Lord Jim]

I read recently that the manufacturer of the Mk41 VLS had fully developed a quad pack system using CAMM, that will fit any length of MK41. In the past I thought it was only possible to fit three per Mk41 launcher. Surely with a nod to these exports the RN design should concentrate on these, doubling the number to say 32 and bin the stand alone launchers for CAMM. With the Mk41 the main launcher, customers could chose a variety of existing and planned weapon system to install to meet their requirements, and greatly increase the commonality of the design.

[xav]

I read recently that the manufacturer of the Mk41 VLS had fully developed a quad pack system using CAMM

Lockheed Martin ExLS Launching System ?

[shark bait]

CAMM is always going to be present on British installations, so it makes little sense to ditch the cheap CAMM silio and switch exclusively to the more expensive Mk41.

There is nothing to a CAMM silo, it is just a cheap steel frame to hold the canister in place. All the fancy stuff comes with the missile in the canister and is single use.

[donald_of_tokyo]

To my understanding, ExLS is "ALSO" capable of "stand alone". So, if you are to install ExLS into Mk.41 VLS, actually you do not need Mk.41 VLS at all. To retrofit CAMM to a ship with Mk.41 VLS, ExLS may be good.

# Note, RNZN ANZAC-mod was said to use Mk.41 VLS but they are not. At least in report around 2016 or so, they state the Mk.41 VLS will be ripped off.

On the other hand, make it compact is a good way to go. In T26 figures, you can see 24-cell CAMM VLS shares similar area to 24-cell Mk.41 VLS. (Of course, the "depth" differs a lot). Actually, 6-cell CAMM unit also share similar area to a 6-cell VL-MICA unit. So, it is totally losing their merit as "no need for blast exhaust".

I tend to think, this is a good option for future growth margin. In future, 48 CAMM VLS can be replaced with ExLS-version, which can carry 4-times more missiles. How about 96 CAMM and 96 SPEAR-3?

[Jake1992]

To my understanding, ExLS is "ALSO" capable of "stand alone". So, if you are to install ExLS into Mk.41 VLS, actually you do not need Mk.41 VLS at all. To retrofit CAMM to a ship with Mk.41 VLS, ExLS may be good.

# Note, RNZN ANZAC-mod was said to use Mk.41 VLS but they are not. At least in report around 2016 or so, they state the Mk.41 VLS will be ripped off.

On the other hand, make it compact is a good way to go. In T26 figures, you can see 24-cell CAMM VLS shares similar area to 24-cell Mk.41 VLS. (Of course, the "depth" differs a lot). Actually, 6-cell CAMM unit also share similar area to a 6-cell VL-MICA unit. So, it is totally losing their merit as "no need for blast exhaust".

I tend to think, this is a good option for future growth margin. In future, 48 CAMM VLS can be replaced with ExLS-version, which can carry 4-times more missiles. How about 96 CAMM and 96 SPEAR-3?

On the second batch of T26 I'd like to see the forward 24 CAMM replaced with an extra 16 mk41 VLS. Out of that 16 6 could be used for quad pack CAMM ( keeping over all 48 ) 6 of aint sub missile and the last 4 for added land attack.

Maybe also look at adding 8 canniester launchers and CEA radar

Quick question can aster 30 be launched from mk41s ?

[shark bait]

How are you magicing up more space for more CAMM? Sticking them in ExLS does not increase the packing density.

Aster can not be launched from a Mk41 VLS. It could be if someone paid to make it happen.