Type 26 Frigate (City Class) (RN) [News Only]

[ArmChairCivvy]

If

they wanted to move say from the LCS variants I would hazard a guess they would use a modified Legend (NSC) class being used in the USCG

- the problem is that even without the gubbings that make a frigate, it costs nearly as much
- I have had the design in mind as the basis for T31 (lean manning, high endurance) but have not mentioned it because of the unit cost. Would be a useful thought exercise for what the dimensions of ours will need to be:
"........to achieve the desired 30-year service life.... an overall length of 127.4m, a beam of 16.4m and a draft of 6.8m. The full load displacement is 4,400t" which makes me think that a 3,300t unit would be too restricted (home waters & forward positioning only?)

[Jake1992]

@R686 I can see it being a long short for the US going for the T26 but it would be amazing to see a comman anglosphere vessel in that way.

I am dislexic so please ignore any of my spelling mistakes

[R686]

@R686 I can see it being a long short for the US going for the T26 but it would be amazing to see a comman anglosphere vessel in that way.

Well yes I can see the justification for a common platform, but it comes done to each nations CONOPS as these will reflect the type and level of capabilty

I am dislexic so please ignore any of my spelling mistakes

Ahh, didn't mean to offend you or anything, just thought it was a typo when you first wrote it till I saw the second, some get a little narky when the see there homeland misspelt, you be surprised how many variations of Australia I have seen over the years

[ArmChairCivvy]

how many variations of Australia I have seen over the years

That would be golden... to try out with the next Ozzie in the pub

[Jake1992]

@R686 no I understand it comes down to each nation and to be honest I see it as a long shot for the US to go for the T26 but you never know.

Oh I wasn't offended just wanted to point it out as I often misspell things

[R686]

Topic has been brought up in the ADF thread, but just a bit of inducement to try and push it over the line

http://www.theage.com.au/world/uk-defen ... xhwmw.html

[ArmChairCivvy]

From the above link
"Sir Michael declined to say if BAE's bid would come in under the AUD 35 billion the Australian has earmarked for the contract [...]
However he pointed to Britain's own contract with BAE Systems to hint the project could come in under budget. For the first time, the Ministry of Defence has signed a "gain-share, pain-share" contract, where both parties split a percentage of the savings if the project comes in under budget and vice-versa if the project proves more expensive."

Not strictly true as a similar contract was signed when the carrier costs were "re-baselined". But true in the sense that the "clause" was a late addition, rather than in the contract from the outset.

[WhiteWhale]

Why would the US buy the T26? They build a better ship for less.

[90inFIRST]

Why would the US buy the T26? They build a better ship for less.

Which frigate is that?

[Jake1992]

@whitewhale I saw it in an artical last week about the US starting to look for a new ASW frigate. It was said that a modified version of both LCSs would be considered and new home built design considered or an over seas design considered, pacificly mentioning the T26 as such an over sea design.

The chances are slim I grant you, but there seems still to be a chance that the T26 could become a comman anglosphere vessel

[ArmChairCivvy]

for less.

could become a comman anglosphere vessel

Time to read up on Churchill?

BTW, to add a little bit of trivia, what is in common between the two Roosevelt cousins and Churchill, before each taking the highest political office?

[matt00773]

Why would the US buy the T26? They build a better ship for less.

What better ship are you referring to? Are you not aware the USN as issued a RFI for a frigate with AWS capability? The T26 is the latest and most advanced AWS frigate yet designed. I don't see why it wouldn't be considered...

[WhiteWhale]

Why would the US buy the T26? They build a better ship for less.

What better ship are you referring to? Are you not aware the USN as issued a RFI for a frigate with AWS capability? The T26 is the latest and most advanced AWS frigate yet designed. I don't see why it wouldn't be considered...

Under-armed, under-manned and with hand me down equipment? Yeah, can see them rushing to that.

[SKB]

I saw it in an artical last week about the US starting to look for a new ASW frigate... pacificly mentioning the T26...

'Portsmouth News', perchance?!

[Jake1992]

I saw it in an artical last week about the US starting to look for a new ASW frigate... pacificly mentioning the T26...

'Portsmouth News', perchance?!

It was posted by one of the military pages I follow, I didn't look who it was written by to be honest but the article court my attention.

[Aethulwulf]

If the RFI from the USN for a new frigate reveals anything, it shows the US is still undecided about what type of frigate it wants.

http://www.defensenews.com/breaking-new ... ign-shift/

At one end of the scale, the door is still open to an enhanced LCS design much like Saudi Arabia has signed a deal to buy. At the furthest other end of the scale would sit something like the T26.

There are a whole range of other options in between, much like the debate in the UK about the size and capabilities of the T31.

For the US to go for the T26 design would be incredibly unlikely. Not only is it at the far end of cost/capability curve being assessed, but it is also a foreign design. Given the direct involvement of US Congressmen and Senators in US procurement decisions, a US design is odds on.

[ArmChairCivvy]

As I read it (and several other articles/ interviews on the topic), only three things are a must:

"

The U.S. Navy wants a frigate that can keep up [1st] with the aircraft carrier — a nagging problem with the current classes of small surface combatants — and have sensors networked in [2nd; can act as a picket for the CTF] with the rest of the fleet to expand the overall tactical picture available to the group.

"The FFG(X) will normally aggregate into strike groups and Large Surface Combatant led surface action groups but [3rd] also possess the ability to robustly defend itself during conduct of independent operations " ["]

and for the rest they have an open mind (and a closed cost envelope).

[matt00773]

As I read it (and several other articles/ interviews on the topic), only three things are a must:

"

The U.S. Navy wants a frigate that can keep up [1st] with the aircraft carrier — a nagging problem with the current classes of small surface combatants — and have sensors networked in [2nd; can act as a picket for the CTF] with the rest of the fleet to expand the overall tactical picture available to the group.

"The FFG(X) will normally aggregate into strike groups and Large Surface Combatant led surface action groups but [3rd] also possess the ability to robustly defend itself during conduct of independent operations " ["]

and for the rest they have an open mind (and a closed cost envelope).

From the RFI and from the list of missions it must be able to undertake:

"Perform anti-submarine warfare (ASW) scout and patrol missions that complement the capabilities of Strike Group and theater operations with enhanced active and passive undersea sensing capabilities."

I'm not in anyway suggesting T26 is a front runner here - just that it ticks many of the RFI boxes and I'd be surprised if BAES doesn't respond.

[ArmChairCivvy]

From the RFI and from the list of missions it must

"Must" and being in Tier 2 of the list are two different things;
" the RFI only requires passive, defensive electronic warfare systems, not active jamming capability, and it puts anti-submarine warfare at a lower priority (“Tier 2”) than either defensive systems or offensive anti-ship weapons. “While the RFI says the Navy wants a ship capable of doing (both) ASUW and ASW,” he said, “this could result in an option for FFG(X) that is less expensive and focused on ASUW.”

And that's not me saying it, but Bryan Clark, a former top aide to the Chief of Naval Operations, [who] gave us [breakingdefence] his analysis of the requirements

[matt00773]

From the RFI and from the list of missions it must

"Must" and being in Tier 2 of the list are two different things;
" the RFI only requires passive, defensive electronic warfare systems, not active jamming capability, and it puts anti-submarine warfare at a lower priority (“Tier 2”) than either defensive systems or offensive anti-ship weapons. “While the RFI says the Navy wants a ship capable of doing (both) ASUW and ASW,” he said, “this could result in an option for FFG(X) that is less expensive and focused on ASUW.”

And that's not me saying it, but Bryan Clark, a former top aide to the Chief of Naval Operations, [who] gave us [breakingdefence] his analysis of the requirements

I'm sure Bryan Clark is entitled to his opinion but the RFI clearly states AWS as a mission during operational phases - even if the systems for these later appear in Tier 2. This is typical for an RFI in any case - get industry to think on their feet.

[ArmChairCivvy]

the RFI clearly states AWS as a mission during operational phases

Reading RFIs is an art (*) and the guy was probably guiding the setting up such as part of his duties in the Navy. But you are right about the nature of this RFI: get all possibilities out, put them on the cost continuum, sink those that do not tick Tier 1s and then move on to a more interactive way of working with a couple of yards.
- get the stars into such a constellation that the sum of LCSs and these new ones will equal 52, within the given total cost

----------
(*) As our MoD and the Foreign Office lost all of their Kremlinologists (save for 1?), I am sure they are clandestinely training us to do the reading between the lines, judging by the types of announcements that are trip fed to the "outside"

[MRCA]

The front runner for the US frigate program will be the ingalls proposal based on the nation security cutter currently used by the US coast guard. The pfi reads almost like it's sales brochure.

[matt00773]

The front runner for the US frigate program will be the ingalls proposal based on the nation security cutter currently used by the US coast guard. The pfi reads almost like it's sales brochure.

Well let's wait and see who responds to this RFI. I suspect quite a range in designs as the document gets interpreted differently from various parties.

[Little J]

Why would the US buy the T26? They build a better ship for less.

What better ship are you referring to? Are you not aware the USN as issued a RFI for a frigate with AWS capability? The T26 is the latest and most advanced AWS frigate yet designed. I don't see why it wouldn't be considered...

Under-armed, under-manned and with hand me down equipment? Yeah, can see them rushing to that.

It would be unlikely I grant you, but I would not say it's impossible. In its favour is that the design is already done. All a US shipyard would have to do is design-in the US equipment that would have been demanded anyway (surely that is cheaper than designing from scratch?).

[Defiance]

Wouldn't consider it likely at all in a regular administration, let alone with Trump at the helm.