Type 26 Frigate (City Class) (RN) [News Only]

[LordJim]

Couldn't we use the T-23s Sea Ceptor systems on the T-31 and increase the number of Mk41s on the T-26? I am right in thinking Sea Ceptor will fit in the Mk41, I think it was 3 per silo in the image I saw. With 32 it would give us 48 Sea Ceptor, 8 TLAM (if that number are Strike length) and 8 ASROC or its successor. Yes the cost goes up but these are going to be our premium warships/escorts. Adopting Harpoon in its future form and Sea Ram would enable a much more common design with the obvious exception of Artisan. Maybe the first batch of 3 for the Royal Navy should be more austere and be used in the GP role with the follow on 5 be of the revised design. Then when they enter their first major refit, brought up to the same standard and the Sea Ceptor etc. transferred to the planned T-31s above and beyond the 5 stated.

[marktigger]

a common commonwealth frigate could be an interesting project. it also shows the flexibility of the design all good things.

[shark bait]

Why would the RN want CAMM in the MK41? Silos that have to manage hot gasses are much more expensive, and consume more space, and the T26 will all ways need to sail with lots of SAM's so it doesn't add to flexibility.

The Silos from the T23 wont be reused on the T26 either. On the T23 its a bespoke silo that drops into the existing sea wolf structure, rather than the much more compact arrangement shown on the T26. The Silo does nothing anyway, gas generator and piston used to launch the missile are single use and come with the missile canister.

Whilst the harpoon fit looks nice, isn't that very close to the aft CAMM VLS is on our version? The location has moved around a bit on different models, not 100% sure where is is now.

[ArmChairCivvy]

The Silo does nothing anyway, gas generator and piston used to launch the missile are single use and come with the missile canister.

The prototype was cheap: turn this one
https://www.gumtree.com/p/freebies/old- ... 1255017477
upside down, figure out how you can make it open quickly and any old tube will do for a launch trial.

[LordJim]

So the systems on the T-23 are not being transferred to the T-26 then just the actual rounds? If you are buying enough Mk41s to equip almost thirty vessels you start to get economies of scale. For the UK we are already buying 16 8 cell Mk41s so the cost increase would not be crippling and the benefits such as the flexibility and ability to use weapons common to other nations would be very useful. The Mk41 can also take Sea Ceptor ER so again to have further options. The reason there are only three missile per silo instead of four is that the forth slot contains the gas generator etc. allowing the cold launch of the Sea Ceptor. The whole thing is self contained and drops into the Mk41.

A common design would also aid costs if thirty hulls are to be built, with the start up and design costs shared between three navies. Anyhow I think this should continue on the Escorts thread, got a bit carried away here.

[shark bait]

There's nothing really to transfer, that's the beauty of CAMM, there's no radar and no special silo. There a couple of control cabs which we can assume will be transferred, but the T26 will also need news ones for the aft VLS which doesn't feature on the T23.

The RN is not going to be using anything other than CAMM in those slots, so there is no point swapping to the more expensive Mk41.

[Ron5]

Both the Australian & Canadian pictures show the latest T26 hull form so its reasonable to assume their sensor fits are the latest proposals.

The rationale for thinking the T23 silo's are being reused is that in the latest CGI they look just like the T23 installation. I can't think of a good reason why they do, other than the silo is being reused.

A Mk41 cell with an ExLS insert can hold 4 CAMM's. The gas generator is not separate but as SB states, is part of each missiles carry/launch case and is therefore single use. ExLs is not long enough to contain CAMM-ER.

Good question on T26 sea boats. I have assumed just one would be carried unless extra are carried in mission bay. Not the most ideal arrangement.

Candidates for T26 Mk 41's were listed by the MoD in a letter some time ago. Included anti-ship, land attack, and torpedo launch (ASROC). Didn't mention air defence.

Adding SeaRam to a CAMM equipped ship would be rather pointless given the overlap in capabilities. Phalanx is primarily installed to combat swarm attacks by small boats. Secondary, it also covers the area within CAMM's minimum range (half a mile or so), last ditch stuff. I assume they will be replaced with lasers when/if they are proven to work.

Quick trivial pursuit question: the T23s are being modified to carry a different main missile system than when they entered service. What was the last RN ship or class to receive the same treatment?

[abc123]

There's nothing really to transfer, that's the beauty of CAMM, there's no radar and no special silo. There a couple of control cabs which we can assume will be transferred, but the T26 will also need news ones for the aft VLS which doesn't feature on the T23.

The RN is not going to be using anything other than CAMM in those slots, so there is no point swapping to the more expensive Mk41.

What's the price difference between Mk41 and CAAM launchers?

[Timmymagic]

ExLs is not long enough to contain CAMM-ER.

That would surely be a very easy change, given that the length is essentially adjusted by internal trusses?

[Ron5]

ExLs is not long enough to contain CAMM-ER.

That would surely be a very easy change, given that the length is essentially adjusted by internal trusses?

I don't know enough about the ExLs to venture an opinion.

[ArmChairCivvy]

ExLs is not long enough to contain CAMM-ER.

1 for 1 (instead of 4) would become a very bad use of the VLS? There is a more informed dicussion on this downstream; just wanted to add what needs to be considered (not just what is possible).

Adding SeaRam to a CAMM equipped ship would be rather pointless given the overlap in capabilities.

Yes, and the sentence that followed gives the rationale for the gun/ missile combo; which either of them are not.
- SeaRam is more surface capable than CAMM, I believe. So, in the latter's case there will be both (ie. some guns, not just MGs).

[donald_of_tokyo]

Do anyone know if the "additional" new 3 sonar sets from TALES include full-set of S2087, or just its periphery units, such as wiring, bolting, multi-static analysis computer and software license?

[GibMariner]

1st Type 26 vessel name to be revealed tomorrow, 20/07/2017:

[Defiance]

Make or break time - desperately want it to be epic.

[imperialman]

Blurring the ships crest is something they done with Tamar and Spey in this fashion. My best guess:

[abc123]

1st Type 26 vessel name to be revealed tomorrow, 20/07/2017:

It would be better if they reveal that they will build few additional Type 26 frigates or when ( and wich one ) anti-ship/land-attack/ASROC missiles will arm these future frigates...

[Ron5]

HMS Plymouth (I hope)

[sea_eagle]

It would be better if they reveal that they will build few additional Type 26 frigates or when ( and wich one ) anti-ship/land-attack/ASROC missiles will arm these future frigates...

Well we know there is no money left for defence spending, however I always thought the better solution was to stick to the plan and build a single class, all Type31, with the planned 8 to have the sonar and the remaining 5 to have the same quiet operation but no sonar. After all much of the kit is pulled through from the T23, and a single design cost spread across 13 is surely cheaper than 2 design costs over fewer ships and then 2 logistics trains?? You can reach me on Iamconfused.war

[-Eddie-]

UK Defence Journal hinted: let 'it' grow. HMS Glasgow it is.

[dmereifield]

UK Defence Journal hinted: let 'it' grow. HMS Glasgow it is.

Would be very pleased with that. I hoped for counties/cities/towns in any case, but having the first one named after one North of the border would be a very nice way to help to strengthen the UK bonds, and stick 2 fingers up to the SNP.

I agree Ron that it would be nice to have a HMS Plymouth, but I think the general public in and around Plymouth, Portsmouth and the Clyde already have a great affinity with the RN, so it would be better to go with other counties/cities/towns. Besides we will also have HMS Tamar....
As long as they go down this route, I don't care which way they go with it, as long as each of the 4 home nations gets a shout out (and I'd love something for Cornwall too, if possible)

[CameronPerson]

HMS Shippy McShip Face.. perhaps a difficult one to pronounce after splicing the main brace

[Zealot]

Glasgow
Coventry
Sheffield

They were the type 42s that were hit in the Falklands.

[abc123]

It would be better if they reveal that they will build few additional Type 26 frigates or when ( and wich one ) anti-ship/land-attack/ASROC missiles will arm these future frigates...

Well we know there is no money left for defence spending, however I always thought the better solution was to stick to the plan and build a single class, all Type31, with the planned 8 to have the sonar and the remaining 5 to have the same quiet operation but no sonar. After all much of the kit is pulled through from the T23, and a single design cost spread across 13 is surely cheaper than 2 design costs over fewer ships and then 2 logistics trains?? You can reach me on Iamconfused.war

Agreed. What I meant to say is, as much as I love the RN, such trivial matters as ship names don't deserve such excitament. Much more important matters need to be excited about...

[RichardIC]

Agreed. What I meant to say is, as much as I love the RN, such trivial matters as ship names don't deserve such excitament. Much more important matters need to be excited about...

Nah, everyone loves a good name debate.

[abc123]

It would be better if they reveal that they will build few additional Type 26 frigates or when ( and wich one ) anti-ship/land-attack/ASROC missiles will arm these future frigates...

Well we know there is no money left for defence spending,

When you spend 1,4 billion USD for a single half-armed frigate with allmost no new-technology on her, you can't say that there's no money.