Type 26 Frigate (City Class) (RN) [News Only]
- shark bait
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Re: Type 26 Global Combat Ship [News Only]
All we can say with certainty is the price somewhere between £800m and £1,200m
@LandSharkUK
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Re: Type 26 Global Combat Ship [News Only]
£1.2b I can see (£3.7b/3 =£1.23b), but where does the (speculated) £0.8b figure come from?shark bait wrote:All we can say with certainty is the price somewhere between £800m and £1,200m
- shark bait
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Re: Type 26 Global Combat Ship [News Only]
It's difficult, the £3.7bn includes £1.3bn already announced for the Demonstration Phase, and Demonstration Phase extension.
Some of that £1.3bn will be fixed costs, some will be variable costs, so only part of that would count towards the 'per additional unit cost'
There is also another £200m contract with BAE for 4 guns, we don't know if this is counted in the £3.7bn figure or not.
So the true 'per additional unit cost' can't be accurately determined, thus somewhere between £800m and £1,200m
Some of that £1.3bn will be fixed costs, some will be variable costs, so only part of that would count towards the 'per additional unit cost'
There is also another £200m contract with BAE for 4 guns, we don't know if this is counted in the £3.7bn figure or not.
So the true 'per additional unit cost' can't be accurately determined, thus somewhere between £800m and £1,200m
@LandSharkUK
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Re: Type 26 Global Combat Ship [News Only]
Refurbished & updated, there's not been a Mk45 new build for many years. Like Phalanx, orders are supplied from the warehouses full of reclaimed weapons.
Re: Type 26 Global Combat Ship [News Only]
Don't get your knickers in a twist little man, I was just offering some friendly advice to somebody else.Tinman wrote:
An american internet hardman, arguing on the internet on the 4th of july. What a life you mist have!
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Re: Type 26 Global Combat Ship [News Only]
No it includes design cost, at least part of, as I understand. From what info. do you think it does not ?abc123 wrote:So, can we at least agree, what's the ( production ) cost of new Type 26 frigate? So, no development costs. Just production. For this, first batch.
( Yes, I know that later ships could have smaller price, because of equipment transferred from Type 23 )
Re: Type 26 Global Combat Ship [News Only]
I've asked that a few times, not got an answer yet... doubt you willdonald_of_tokyo wrote:No it includes design cost, at least part of, as I understand. From what info. do you think it does not ?abc123 wrote:So, can we at least agree, what's the ( production ) cost of new Type 26 frigate? So, no development costs. Just production. For this, first batch.
( Yes, I know that later ships could have smaller price, because of equipment transferred from Type 23 )
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Re: Type 26 Global Combat Ship [News Only]
Yeh.SDL wrote:I've asked that a few times, not got an answer yet... doubt you will
http://www.defensenews.com/articles/bae ... e-frigates
says,
"The £3.7 billion price tag for the three ships includes money already spent on long-lead items, ongoing development costs and some infrastructure work being paid for by the MoD at BAE’s two yards in Glasgow, Scotland, where the warships will be built."
Also Gabriele-san suggests "Most, but not all, of these almost 2 billion pounds, which have been converted in a long list of parts already on order / delivered / being delivered for the first three vessels, have effectively been announced a second time, because they are included in the 3.7 billion deal."
But both are article, and not official information. But, anyway you need to design before you buy...
Re: Type 26 Global Combat Ship [News Only]
Geoff Serle's Tweets.donald_of_tokyo wrote:No it includes design cost, at least part of, as I understand. From what info. do you think it does not ?abc123 wrote:So, can we at least agree, what's the ( production ) cost of new Type 26 frigate? So, no development costs. Just production. For this, first batch.
( Yes, I know that later ships could have smaller price, because of equipment transferred from Type 23 )
"The £3.7B includes the Manufacturing Phase and long-lead supplier costs from previous phases"
Source: http://ukarmedforcescommentary.blogspot.hr/
Now, of these costs, what do you think it included:
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DDuJoFrXsAAl9PI.jpg:large
Fortune favors brave sir, said Carrot cheerfully.
What's her position about heavily armed, well prepared and overmanned armies?
Oh, noone's ever heard of Fortune favoring them, sir.
According to General Tacticus, it's because they favor themselves…
What's her position about heavily armed, well prepared and overmanned armies?
Oh, noone's ever heard of Fortune favoring them, sir.
According to General Tacticus, it's because they favor themselves…
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Re: Type 26 Global Combat Ship [News Only]
Surely these 1.7-1.9B GBP includes design cost, for example Demonstration phase provides design (to some extent). But, exactly what is included in the "3.7B GBP figure" is not clear, I agree. So, practically speaking, it is still not clear. One clear thing is, MOD has already payed certain amount of design cost, just because of we will see the first steel cut soon.abc123 wrote:Geoff Serle's Tweets.
"The £3.7B includes the Manufacturing Phase and long-lead supplier costs from previous phases"
Source: http://ukarmedforcescommentary.blogspot.hr/
Now, of these costs, what do you think it included:
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DDuJoFrXsAAl9PI.jpg:large
1.23B GBP per hull as "an average cost" is the thing we can say now. It is not necessarily unit cost, but just "not necessarily". On the other hand, if the 3.7B GBP does NOT include design cost, it means the total cost for 8 T26 shall surely exceed 8B GBP.shark bait wrote:It's difficult, the £3.7bn includes £1.3bn already announced for the Demonstration Phase, and Demonstration Phase extension.
Some of that £1.3bn will be fixed costs, some will be variable costs, so only part of that would count towards the 'per additional unit cost'
There is also another £200m contract with BAE for 4 guns, we don't know if this is counted in the £3.7bn figure or not.
So the true 'per additional unit cost' can't be accurately determined, thus somewhere between £800m and £1,200m
Re: Type 26 Global Combat Ship [News Only]
Any more detailed info on that? Costs?donald_of_tokyo wrote: and some infrastructure work being paid for by the MoD at BAE’s two yards in Glasgow, Scotland, where the warships will be built."
Fortune favors brave sir, said Carrot cheerfully.
What's her position about heavily armed, well prepared and overmanned armies?
Oh, noone's ever heard of Fortune favoring them, sir.
According to General Tacticus, it's because they favor themselves…
What's her position about heavily armed, well prepared and overmanned armies?
Oh, noone's ever heard of Fortune favoring them, sir.
According to General Tacticus, it's because they favor themselves…
Re: Type 26 Global Combat Ship [News Only]
It seems that I have managed to find something:
Some £600 million of the demonstration phase deal will be spent on equipment from suppliers in Britain as well as North America and Europe.
BAE soon will start a £100 million makeover of the yards as part of a transformation effort aimed at putting them among the most efficient warship builders in the world ahead of production of the Type 26s.
http://www.defensenews.com/story/defens ... /31152813/
That's from August of 2015.
So I presume that additional 472 million of pounds of Demonstration-extension from 2016 is not included. Now, if we take that about same amount of ( 600-850, it means 70% ) is for long lead items ( that's about 300 mil. pounds ), can we say that it's about 1 billion 600 + 100 + 300 ) of pounds that's included in 3,7 billions?
*With additional costs of 3 x Artisan and Sonar 2087- that's maybe what, 70 millions pounds per ship? That's about 200-250 mil. pounds total. CAAM is probably budgeted separately.
So, 3,7 bilions minus 250 millions minus 100 millions for shipyards- that's about 3,3 billions. Divided on 3 ships- it's about 1,1 billion of pounds per ship.
What do you think?
Some £600 million of the demonstration phase deal will be spent on equipment from suppliers in Britain as well as North America and Europe.
BAE soon will start a £100 million makeover of the yards as part of a transformation effort aimed at putting them among the most efficient warship builders in the world ahead of production of the Type 26s.
http://www.defensenews.com/story/defens ... /31152813/
That's from August of 2015.
So I presume that additional 472 million of pounds of Demonstration-extension from 2016 is not included. Now, if we take that about same amount of ( 600-850, it means 70% ) is for long lead items ( that's about 300 mil. pounds ), can we say that it's about 1 billion 600 + 100 + 300 ) of pounds that's included in 3,7 billions?
*With additional costs of 3 x Artisan and Sonar 2087- that's maybe what, 70 millions pounds per ship? That's about 200-250 mil. pounds total. CAAM is probably budgeted separately.
So, 3,7 bilions minus 250 millions minus 100 millions for shipyards- that's about 3,3 billions. Divided on 3 ships- it's about 1,1 billion of pounds per ship.
What do you think?
Fortune favors brave sir, said Carrot cheerfully.
What's her position about heavily armed, well prepared and overmanned armies?
Oh, noone's ever heard of Fortune favoring them, sir.
According to General Tacticus, it's because they favor themselves…
What's her position about heavily armed, well prepared and overmanned armies?
Oh, noone's ever heard of Fortune favoring them, sir.
According to General Tacticus, it's because they favor themselves…
Re: Type 26 Global Combat Ship [News Only]
Well, not possible as they do not have it in the first place. If Type 26 ever gets the CIWS fit, they'll need to buy new mounts for every ship as there are no spare ones for 8 frigates.Will Phalanx be also taken from type 23 and transferred?
Maybe you were thinking of the DS30M light guns. Those will definitely migrate from old hull to new hull, i'd think.
You might also know me as Liger30, from that great forum than MP.net was.
Arma Pacis Fulcra.
Si Vis Pacem, Para Bellum
Arma Pacis Fulcra.
Si Vis Pacem, Para Bellum
Re: Type 26 Global Combat Ship [News Only]
No because Type 23 dont have Phalanx - unfortunately it has to be said ! I had hoped that at least one would have been fitted in place of the the Sea Wolf trackers, but it would appear we dont have the dosh....
Re: Type 26 Global Combat Ship [News Only]
Gabriele wrote:Well, not possible as they do not have it in the first place. If Type 26 ever gets the CIWS fit, they'll need to buy new mounts for every ship as there are no spare ones for 8 frigates.Will Phalanx be also taken from type 23 and transferred?
Maybe you were thinking of the DS30M light guns. Those will definitely migrate from old hull to new hull, i'd think.
Maybe. I was 100% convinced that Type 23s have Phalanx.
I stand corrected.
Fortune favors brave sir, said Carrot cheerfully.
What's her position about heavily armed, well prepared and overmanned armies?
Oh, noone's ever heard of Fortune favoring them, sir.
According to General Tacticus, it's because they favor themselves…
What's her position about heavily armed, well prepared and overmanned armies?
Oh, noone's ever heard of Fortune favoring them, sir.
According to General Tacticus, it's because they favor themselves…
Re: Type 26 Global Combat Ship [News Only]
Hopefully the new laser development project will be mature enough that the T26's get a couple instead of the Phalanx. It will be a long while before they are fitted.
Re: Type 26 Global Combat Ship [News Only]
Yeah, it might be just ready for first Type 26.Ron5 wrote:Hopefully the new laser development project will be mature enough that the T26's get a couple instead of the Phalanx. It will be a long while before they are fitted.
Fortune favors brave sir, said Carrot cheerfully.
What's her position about heavily armed, well prepared and overmanned armies?
Oh, noone's ever heard of Fortune favoring them, sir.
According to General Tacticus, it's because they favor themselves…
What's her position about heavily armed, well prepared and overmanned armies?
Oh, noone's ever heard of Fortune favoring them, sir.
According to General Tacticus, it's because they favor themselves…
Re: Type 26 Global Combat Ship [News Only]
Would the Type 23's have the power allowance to use an operationally relevant laser without compromising other tasks?
- shark bait
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Re: Type 26 Global Combat Ship [News Only]
The ones we have seen so far have their own generators so they can be used independently of the ships systems, great for emergency situations.
@LandSharkUK
Re: Type 26 Global Combat Ship [News Only]
Probably not but regardless, the T23's would still have the problem that prevents Phalanx installation i.e. lack of sufficient top weight margins.Defiance wrote:Would the Type 23's have the power allowance to use an operationally relevant laser without compromising other tasks?
Re: Type 26 Global Combat Ship [News Only]
Were it possible, it'd be interesting to see the true difference between the replacement of Sea Wolf with CAMM in that regard, similarly the anticipation of the removal of Harpoon and associated gubbins.Ron5 wrote:Probably not but regardless, the T23's would still have the problem that prevents Phalanx installation i.e. lack of sufficient top weight margins.Defiance wrote:Would the Type 23's have the power allowance to use an operationally relevant laser without compromising other tasks?
Considering the length of time they intend to be in service, they can't afford to put on too much weight.
Re: Type 26 Global Combat Ship [News Only]
Radar got heavier and that's a lot higher and therefore has a bigger effect.
- shark bait
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- Joined: 05 May 2015, 21:18
Re: Type 26 Global Combat Ship [News Only]
The USN have just posted a requirement for a ASW fleet escort, guided missile frigate that can operate drones.....
....BAE must be rubbing their hands together.
....BAE must be rubbing their hands together.
@LandSharkUK
Re: Type 26 Global Combat Ship [News Only]
I have far more chances to become Pope than Type 26 has to become the US Navy's frigate.
The requirements in the RFI basically are for a slower LCS with more accommodation and, possibly, a few VLS if they fit. The rest is unchanged from earlier LCS Fast Frigate plans, so i really don't get where the "major shift" the press is babbling about is.
The requirements in the RFI basically are for a slower LCS with more accommodation and, possibly, a few VLS if they fit. The rest is unchanged from earlier LCS Fast Frigate plans, so i really don't get where the "major shift" the press is babbling about is.
You might also know me as Liger30, from that great forum than MP.net was.
Arma Pacis Fulcra.
Si Vis Pacem, Para Bellum
Arma Pacis Fulcra.
Si Vis Pacem, Para Bellum