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Type 26 Frigate (City Class) (RN) [News Only]

Contains threads on Royal Navy equipment of the past, present and future.

Which Anti-Ship Missile Should be Selected for the Type 26?

Lockheed Martin LRASM
137
52%
Kongsberg NSM
61
23%
Boeing Harpoon Next Gen
40
15%
MBDA Exocet Blk III
19
7%
None (stick to guided ammo and FASGW from Helicopters)
8
3%
 
Total votes: 265

jonas
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Type 26 Frigate (City Class) (RN) [News Only]

Postby jonas » 01 May 2015, 09:10

Edit by The Armchair Soldier:

Please Read Before Posting:
To prevent important news items from being bogged down by general discussion, we have decided to split this topic. This topic will now be used for news only. You are encouraged to post news in this thread - as well as discuss it - but please do not allow your discussions to meander onto other topics and keep speculation to a minimum.

For general discussion, please use the newly-created Current & Future Escorts - General Discussion topic. Within that topic, you may discuss the Type 26 more broadly, as well as the current and future escort fleet in general.

Please Private Message an administrator if you need further clarification on these changes.

_________________________________________________________________

Original post by jonas:

Come on guys, lets have some more threads on here, or are we wary of treading on someone else's toes.

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Re: Type 26 Frigate (City Class) (RN) [News Only]

Postby SKB » 01 May 2015, 10:24

Image

Introduction
The Type 26 Frigate is a ship design and construction programme of the Ministry of Defence of the United Kingdom, to replace the thirteen Type 23 frigates of the Royal Navy and for export.

The programme started in 1998, named "Future Surface Combatant (FSC)". In March 2010 BAE Systems Maritime – Naval Ships was awarded a four-year contract to develop the Type 26 Global Combat Ship. The design passed Main Gate 1, with Demonstration Phase starting 1 April 2015, with manufacturing planned to begin in 2016 and the first Type 26 to be delivered in 2022.

On Thursday 20th July 2017, it was announced that the Type 26 Frigates are to be known as the City Class, with HMS Glasgow as the first ship to be named.


Development
The Global Combat Ship started development under the original Future Surface Combatant (FSC) programme intended to replace the Royal Navy's Type 22 and Type 23 frigates. Planning for a replacement escort vessel started in 1998 with the ordering of a research vessel, the RV Triton, to study whether a trimaran design was practical for such a large and complex vessel. However, by the early 2000s it was apparently obvious the Royal Navy favoured more conventional designs. In March 2005, plans were released for a two-class solution, a cheaper "Medium Sized Vessel Derivative" entering service in 2016-19 and a more capable "Versatile Surface Combatant" entering service around 2023.

In early 2006 the MoD started a Sustained Surface Combatant Capability (S2C2) programme which explored synergies between the FSC and other needs, for minesweepers, patrol ships and survey ships. By early 2007 this had crystallised into the three requirements; C1, C2 and C3. C1, (formerly Versatile Surface Combatant) was to be an Anti Submarine Warfare task group enabled platform and would displace around 6,000 tonnes. C2, (formerly Medium Sized Vessel Derivative) was to be a more general purpose platform displacing somewhere in the region of 4-5,000 tonnes, and C3 was to be a Global Corvette to replace a larger number of smaller vessel in service, such as minesweepers, patrol and survey ships. The Global Corvette was to displace around 2-3,000 tonnes.

The C3 found its roots in early 2004 when the MoD issued a Request for Information (RFI) for a smaller class of ship known as the Global Corvette. Low running costs and the ability to operate forward in shallow, coastal areas where larger ships cannot, were both important. BAE Systems, VT Group, Thales and Rolls-Royce responded in autumn 2004 with concepts ranging from a well equipped Offshore Patrol Vessel (OPV) of 1,500 tonnes to an advanced and very capable "corvette" of 3,000 tonnes, along the lines of the USN's Littoral Combat Ship programme (LCS). The FSC concept was brought forward in the 2008 budget, at the expense of options for two Type 45 destroyers not being taken up (ships 7 and 8). In 2009 BAE Systems received a contract to design the C1 and C2 frigates with a planned 25 year life. A total of 18 vessels (10 C1 and 8 C2) were planned to enter service from 2020, at a pace of roughly one per year. In early 2010 the C3 variant was dropped for the Mine Countermeasures, Hydrography and Patrol Capability programme (MHPC).

Contract awarded
On 24 February 2010, First Sea Lord Sir Mark Stanhope referred to the Future Surface Combatant as the "Type 26 frigate" during a speech at the International Institute for Strategic Studies (IISS). This designation was repeated during a House of Commons debate on defence on 15 March 2010.

On 25 March 2010, BAE Systems were given a four-year, £127 million contract by the UK Ministry of Defence (MoD), to fully design the Type 26 Global Combat Ship (formerly C1 of the FSC). At the time the first of the Type 26 Global Combat Ships was expected to be delivered to the Royal Navy by 2020. The October 2010 Strategic Defence and Security Review (SDSR) reaffirmed the government's commitment to the Type 26 GCS - "As soon as possible after 2020 the Type 23 will be replaced by Type 26 frigates, designed to be easily adapted to change roles and capabilities depending on the strategic circumstances". Under the SDSR the two classes of the former Future Surface Combatant, previously known as the C1 and the C2 variants, were merged into the Type 26 Global Combat Ship. The Type 26 combines advantages of both variants into a single versatile ship, designed to readily change roles and capabilities depending on the strategic circumstances. As part of the review it was also announced that the remaining Type 22 frigates would be decommissioned without replacement within 6 months of the review. This leaves the Royal Navy's escort fleet at 19 destroyers and frigates (6 Type 45 destroyers and 13 Type 23 frigates). Contract signing was delayed until after the Scottish independence referendum of 2014. In February 2015, the MoD and BAE Systems signed a contract worth £859m to continue development, supporting progression towards the manufacturing phase. As of 2014 the MoD hope to have the first ship delivered in 2022.

Unlike the FSC, the Global Combat Ship will have only one hull design. However like the Franco-Italian family of FREMM multipurpose frigates, three versions are proposed: a design optimised for anti-submarine warfare (ASW), an anti-aircraft warfare (AAW) variant, and a general purpose (GP) variant.

Possible partnerships
As of 31 January 2011 Malaysia, Australia, New Zealand, and Turkey had all expressed interest in collaborating on the Global Combat Ship, and the UK was in "close discussion" with Canada. A Canadian union campaigned that the Global Combat Ship threatened Canadian shipbuilders and in the run-up to the May 2011 election a spokesman for the Canadian Defence Minister ruled out involvement with the British programme. Turkey also later rejected the design as not meeting its requirements.

In January 2010, Jane's Defence Weekly reported that the governments of the United Kingdom and Australia were exploring the potential for cooperation on the C1 and C3 designs, which corresponds closely to the Royal Australian Navy's requirements in replacing its MEKO-200 Anzac-class frigate with a new frigate type (Project SEA 5000). An initial decision for the frigate replacement is not expected until at least 2018. When the two countries signed a defence cooperation treaty in January 2013 the Australians agreed to collaborate on their frigate requirement and investigate involvement in the Type 26 project.

The British and Brazilian governments agreed on a defence partnership that may lead to the sale of five or six Type 26 frigates to the Brazilian Navy. In October 2010, BAE made a detailed proposal to the Brazilian navy, for a package including Type 26 frigates as well as variants of the Wave Knight-class tanker and River-class patrol vessel.

In August 2011 it was reported that the UK Government, together with BAE Systems, was considering entering into partnership with the Indian MoD and private defence shipyards in India to jointly design and build the Type 26/Global Combat Ship.

In July 2015, Defense News reported that the Type 26 design could be selected by Germany. BAE Systems' Type 26 program director, Geoff Searle, stated that "German teams been over here, and there has been ministerial discussion. [...] We are certainly interested in the program. They have a similar requirement to the Type 26." Thus, the Type 26 may possibly become the basic design for 4 to 6 multi purpose ships of the so called "MKS 180" programme.

Characteristics
BAE's original working baseline for the Type 26 design was a vessel of 141 metres long with a displacement of 6,850 tonnes and an "in service date" of 2021. On 30 November 2010 it was reported that the specifications had been pared to reduce the cost from £500M to £250-350M per ship. By May 2011 new specification details began to emerge of a smaller 5,400 tonne ship emphasising flexibility and modularity like the German Blohm + Voss GmbH MEKO designs. The new design has a length of 148 metres, a beam of 19 metres and a top speed in excess of 28 knots (52 km/h). Type 26 will have a crew of 118 with room for 72 embarked troops. Type 26 is designed for up to 60 days' endurance and a range of approximately 7,000 nautical miles (13,000 km) at 15 knots (28 km/h).

Global Combat Ship is designed with modularity and flexibility in mind to enhance versatility across the full range of operations, including maritime security, counter piracy, counter terrorist and humanitarian and disaster relief operations. Located in the stern is a mission bay with a ramp allowing for the deployment of rigid-hulled inflatable boats, unmanned surface vehicles or a towed array sonar (Sonar 2087). Early designs had a well deck at the back for launching and recovering unmanned undersea vehicles (UUVs). The latest BAE design now has a large midships flexible Mission Deck instead of the well deck. Aircraft similar in size to the Boeing Chinook can be flown off the large flight deck, and the hangar can accommodate Royal Navy Wildcats and Merlin helicopters. The flight deck also includes an extra hangar door and space to accommodate Unmanned Aerial Vehicles.

Royal Navy ships will be equipped with the Type 997 Artisan 3D search radar and Sea Ceptor (CAMM) air-defence missiles launched via 48 VLS canisters. An additional 16-cell or 24-cell "Main Strike Length" VLS Mark 41 is positioned forward of the bridge capable of firing missiles such as Tomahawk land-attack cruise missiles, anti-ship missiles and quad packed Sea Ceptor missiles. Like the Type 23 frigate it will replace, Type 26 Global Combat Ship will have an acoustically quiet hull for anti-submarine warfare and will be armed with Sting Ray acoustic homing torpedos. Each Type 26 will be fitted with a Thales Underwater Systems Type 2050 bow sonar, while eight vessels will be equipped with an additional powerful towed array sonar (e.g. Sonar 2087) recycled from the Type 23s. The Type 26 will also be fitted with guns of various calibres. Instead of the RN's traditional 4.5" gun it is expected to have a NATO-standard 5" main gun, either the Otobreda 127/64 or BAE Mark 45. Smaller guns include two Phalanx CIWS, two 30mm DS30M Mark 2 Automated Small Calibre Guns and a number of miniguns and general-purpose machine guns.

The propulsion system of the RN ships will have a gas turbine direct drive and four high speed diesel generators driving two electric motors in a CODLOG configuration. In 2012 Rolls Royce repackaged the MT30 used in the Queen Elizabeth class aircraft carriers so that it would fit into smaller ships,and it is likely the Type 26 will use the MT30. BAE have suggested that some customers will install gas turbine engines and others will prefer to sacrifice 2-3 knots of speed by choosing cheaper diesel engines. The choice of CODLOG configuration for propulsion is somewhat surprising as it is a simpler version of the CODLAG propulsion used on the Type 23 which this ship is to replace, and both of the Type 26's design contemporaries - the Queen Elizabeth-class aircraft carrier and the Type 45 destroyer - use integrated electric propulsion.

Ships of the class
The first vessel is due to enter service with the Royal Navy sometime during 2021 and by the mid-2030s the Type 26 will be the backbone and workhorses of the Royal Navy. On 24 May 2012, Peter Luff during a Commons Debate responded to a question regarding the number of ships to be ordered saying, "I can confirm that the Ministry of Defence's current planning assumption is for the construction of thirteen Type 26 Global Combat Ships (GCS)."

On 3 December 2013, in a Westminster Hall debate, Philip Dunne (a minister at the MoD) stated that "We [the UK Government] intend to place an order towards the end of next year [2014], once the design is mature, which we expect to be for eight vessels initially...". There is a campaign to name one of the ships HMS Plymouth, although Royal Navy ship names are formed via the Ships’ Names and Badges Committee.

On 23 November 2015 as part of the 2015 Strategic Defence & Security Review (SDSR), Prime minister David Cameron announced that just 8 Type 26 frigates will be built with a new class of light frigate to make up the remaining 5 frigates and due to an expected lower cost potentially allow for more than 13 total frigates to be built.

On 30 September 2018 at the Conservative Party Conference in Birmingham, Defence Secretary Gavin Williamson announced that the name of the fourth City Class Type 26 frigate is to be HMS Birmingham.

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Re: UK's Future T26 Frigate.

Postby The Armchair Soldier » 01 May 2015, 10:45

Tories won’t make any more cuts to Royal Navy says Michael Fallon

THE defence secretary has pledged that no further cuts will be made to the Royal Navy should his party return to power.

Tory Michael Fallon says the government has a ‘huge investment programme’ in place to bolster the navy and secure the future of the city’s dockyard for years to come.

Concerns have recently been raised about the future of defence spending and how the conventional forces have dropped to their lowest numbers since the Napoleonic Wars.

Speaking to The News during a visit to Portsmouth yesterday ahead of the general election, Mr Fallon said: ‘There is a huge investment programme in place to expand the navy.

‘We’re investing in the navy – we’re building naval aircraft carriers and hunter-killer submarines and replacing frigates.

‘These maritime warships are going to be much more powerful than their predecessors – four or five times more powerful.

‘It’s not just the number we build, but what they can do.’

It comes after Councillor Gerald Vernon-Jackson, Lib Dem parliamentary candidate for Portsmouth South, wrote to David Cameron urging him to give a guarantee all 13 of the navy’s current Type 23 frigates would be replaced with Type 26s.

When asked by The News whether there would be a like-for-like replacement, Mr Fallon could give no firm promise but said that was the plan.

‘We’re planning on replacing all 13 of the existing Type 23s, but we are still in the planning phase,’ he said.

‘But these will be more powerful than the existing frigates.’

Read More: http://www.portsmouth.co.uk/news/local/ ... -1-6720371

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Re: UK's Future T26 Frigate.

Postby marktigger » 01 May 2015, 11:44

I had hoped the Type 26 would match the full type 23 build of 16 vessels hopefully the buy will be extended!

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Re: UK's Future T26 Frigate.

Postby SKB » 01 May 2015, 11:46

It is hoped that the T26 will eventually replace all thirteen surviving T23's on a one for one basis.

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Re: UK's Future T26 Frigate.

Postby RetroSicotte » 01 May 2015, 12:06

This is the line that interests me.

"‘We’re planning on replacing all 13 of the existing Type 23s, but we are still in the planning phase,’ he said."

Read a certain way, this could imply a statement of replacing all 13, but not all of them will be Type 26.

Part of me wonders what a Khareef style corvette could play off like if re-equipped with JSM and Sea-Ceptor to help make up hull numbers.

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Re: UK's Future T26 Frigate.

Postby The Armchair Soldier » 01 May 2015, 12:07

SKB wrote:It is hoped that the T26 will eventually replace all thirteen surviving T23's on a one for one basis.

But with Fallon already throwing out the typical excuses of "b-but they're three times as powerful as the ships they replace", I wonder how long it will be before the order gets cut.

Heh, I remember the times when an order of 21 ships was being thrown about. :lol:

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Re: UK's Future T26 Frigate.

Postby SKB » 01 May 2015, 12:12

Would you think twelve T26's would be a bare minimum number? Two per each T45 ?

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Re: UK's Future T26 Frigate.

Postby RetroSicotte » 01 May 2015, 12:33

The minimum really is around 10 if you ask me. However anything below 13 should be compensated for by smaller warships. We have produced such things not too long ago. It's hull numbers that matter, along with enough Type 26's to hold a power centre to it all.

Honestly, if they said they were going to drop from 13 Type 26's to 10 Type 26's and 3-5 smaller Corvettes based off the River design, I'd be quite happy with how things are for that to have been the least of our worries.

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Re: UK's Future T26 Frigate.

Postby jonas » 01 May 2015, 15:29

Being a glass half full sort of person, or perhaps overley optimistic, I think we will get the one for one replacements over time. If not the full 13 then I would go for a slightly upgraded 'Black Swan Project' type as opposed to a modified 'River'. A project still (hopefully) on the MOD's whiteboard but with a larger calibre main gun and perhaps Sea Ceptor, ideal for this size of ship.

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/s ... _SwanU.pdf

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Re: UK's Future T26 Frigate.

Postby Phil R » 01 May 2015, 16:21

I can forsee a situation where we eventually do get a one for one replacement, but where two or more Dukes are retired early whilst maintaining the steady (artificially slow) drumbeat of Type 26 construction for "cost saving reasons" and thus causing a serious reduction in hull numbers for several years. :roll:

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Re: UK's Future T26 Frigate.

Postby jonas » 01 May 2015, 16:40

Phil R wrote:I can forsee a situation where we eventually do get a one for one replacement, but where two or more Dukes are retired early whilst maintaining the steady (artificially slow) drumbeat of Type 26 construction for "cost saving reasons" and thus causing a serious reduction in hull numbers for several years. :roll:

Phil R


Sadly only the former soviet bloc countries of eastern europe see the danger, as it's on their doorstep. They are the ones who are upping their defence budgets, along with the scandinavian countries who have borders with Russia.
Meanwhile the UK establishment keeps on repeating on how we are building up our Navy, by constantly quoting T45 (six ships completed) and no more to come. QE class carriers both to be commissioned (on a rotational basis). T26 frigates (orders yet to be confirmed). Astute class SSN's ( the least number we can get away with). Our once envied amphib capability (well at least in Europe) emasculated.
As the fifth largest defence budget in the world, we should be getting far more for our money, it's not happening, why?

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Re: UK's Future T26 Frigate.

Postby Phil R » 01 May 2015, 17:12

The most concerning for me was the refusal to order/cancellation of the final Astute.
We have a stated requirement for 8 boats!

Phil R

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Re: UK's Future T26 Frigate.

Postby Pseudo » 01 May 2015, 22:16

jonas wrote:As the fifth largest defence budget in the world, we should be getting far more for our money, it's not happening, why?

I'm no expert, but I think that one major contributing factor is that we seem to have a self-perpetuating problem where major procurements are estimated to cost significantly less than they realistically should cost, meaning that there's less money available for the next major procurement, so the cost of that is underestimated while the original project is slowed down to spread the cost out, which eventually costs even more. This means that our ability to properly plan our procurement budget is seriously undermined.

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Re: UK's Future T26 Frigate.

Postby SKB » 01 May 2015, 22:20

Or there is an alternatively theory. BAE seem to have a monopoly on most (if not all) MOD contracts, meaning they can charge what they like and the MOD has to pay.

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Re: UK's Future T26 Frigate.

Postby Pseudo » 01 May 2015, 22:54

SKB wrote:Or there is an alternatively theory. BAE seem to have a monopoly on most (if not all) MOD contracts, meaning they can charge what they like and the MOD has to pay.

I think having what amounts to sole source procurement doesn't help matters, but sufficiently robust procurement contracts by the MoD would significantly reduce extra costs to the MoD. I think it more likely comes down to the Treasury being unwilling to sign off on major procurements if they knew how much it would really cost. So ultimately, I think it's unrealistic expectations on behalf of the Treasury combined with the MoD's desire to get the best kit they can that probably bears most of the responsibility.

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Re: UK's Future T26 Frigate.

Postby jonas » 02 May 2015, 09:35

In relation to the following link. Does anyone have any info on the progress (or lack of) on the so called 'frigate factory', has any work started yet on the complex, or indeed have they yet been given planning permission to build at Scotstoun ?
BAE seem to be very quiet on the subject.

http://www.shippingtimes.co.uk/item_10686.html

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Which anti-ship missile for Type 26 FFG ?

Postby xav » 02 May 2015, 11:53

In your opinion, which ASuW missile solution should the RN adopt for its Type 26 and why ?
(Don't just stick to the technical aspect, performance of each solutions. Try to consider politial and budget aspects as well)

Lockheed Martin LRASM.
Image
Pros: 21st century tech to counter 21st century threats; vertical launch (Mk41 VLS)
Cons: Unproven; not immediately available; price ?

For the record:
NR: Has Lockheed Martin received interest from foreign allied navies (namely Royal Navy and Royal Australian Navy) for LRASM? If approved via FMS / US Government, is Lockheed Martin confident LRASM could be easily integrated on a foreign class of vessel (even one with a non-us combat management system).
LM: Currently, Lockheed Martin is addressing our U.S. warfighters’ capability gap by providing them with a weapon system that will allow for surface dominance in any region. International opportunities are depended on exportability, and the U.S. State Department can answer that more fully. Lockheed Martin has proven to be a successful system integrator on domestic and international platforms of all types, and we are confident that should the U.S. Government elect to make LRASM available for foreign military sales, we can integrate and deliver our weapon system to our international allies.

http://www.navyrecognition.com/index.ph ... ew&id=2610

Kongsberg NSM
Image
Pros: 21st century tech; vertical launch variant in the works (Mk41 VLS); Missile already selected by a couple of NATO navies
Cons: Unproven; not immediately available (for VL variant); price ?

For the record:
New Details on the Kongsberg Vertical Launch Joint Strike Missile (VL JSM)
http://www.navyrecognition.com/index.ph ... ew&id=2328

Boeing Harpoon Next Gen
Image
Pros: kit to upgrade the existing Harpoon inventories, price, proven
Cons: 20th century tech, need launch canisters (no vls) which is not currently planned for Type 26

For the record:
Boeing just announced a new upgrade to its Harpoon missile.
http://thediplomat.com/2015/04/who-will ... p-missile/

MBDA Exocet Blk III
Image
Pros: price, proven, UK Jobs (likely possibility to produce them at MBDA UK plants)
Cons: 20th century tech, need launch canisters (no vls) which is not currently planned for Type 26

None (stick to guided ammo and FASGW from Helicopters)
Image
Pros: price
Cons: limited capability

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Re: Which anti-ship missile for Type 26 FFG ?

Postby SKB » 02 May 2015, 11:57

Why not integrate this topic into the T26 thread instead of creating a new one?

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Re: UK's Future T26 Frigate.

Postby The Armchair Soldier » 02 May 2015, 12:00

Thread merged.

And thanks for posting, xav. ;)

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Re: Which anti-ship missile for Type 26 FFG ?

Postby xav » 02 May 2015, 12:57

Thanks for merging Armchair Soldier
SKB wrote:Why not integrate this topic into the T26 thread instead of creating a new one?

Because I didn't know I could create a poll in an existing thread.

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Re: UK's Future T26 Frigate.

Postby Old RN » 02 May 2015, 17:19

In terms of the Anti ship missile for the T26, what about the Naval Scalp or the joint France/UK supersonic Perseus missile?

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Re: UK's Future T26 Frigate.

Postby Phil R » 02 May 2015, 18:52

SCALP-N if i remember correctly is a very expensive missile (~€4m each). Modifying it with a new seeker and warhead would increase costs further.

The Perseus concept is very interesting, but if it is developed (and i hope it is), I doubt it would be available before 2035, a bit too late for late for the Type 26.

Phil R

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Re: UK's Future T26 Frigate.

Postby seaspear » 02 May 2015, 22:46

Is there an advantage of launching against a target with the ability of defence against missiles different types of missiles at the same time

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Re: UK's Future T26 Frigate.

Postby jonas » 03 May 2015, 08:45

Progress of LRASM since 2011, see under 'press releases'. Yes I know as it's a Lockheed-Martin blurb it will be biased, but seems well on track all the same.
http://www.lockheedmartin.co.uk/us/products/LRASM.html


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