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Scimitar Class Fast Patrol Vessels (RN)

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ArmChairCivvy
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Re: Scimitar Class Patrol Vessel (RN)

Postby ArmChairCivvy » 21 Aug 2017, 12:15

ArmChairCivvy wrote:the fact that the RN specified a flashless propellant charge, presumably because MTBs usually operated at night."

... and if you were unfortunate enough to encounter an E-boat (or were they "S", for Schnell?) then the fast firing Bofors (or something similar) would save the bacon

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Re: Scimitar Class Fast Patrol Vessels (RN)

Postby SKB » 20 Apr 2018, 08:46

With the decommissioning of HMS Gleaner, the title of smallest commissioned ships in the Royal Navy have now passed to HMS Scimitar and HMS Sabre, as Gleaner's replacement, HMS Magpie, is larger than the two Scimitar class vessels.

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Re: Scimitar Class Fast Patrol Vessels (RN)

Postby dmereifield » 21 Apr 2018, 08:34

SKB wrote:With the decommissioning of HMS Gleaner, the title of smallest commissioned ships in the Royal Navy have now passed to HMS Scimitar and HMS Sabre, as Gleaner's replacement, HMS Magpie, is larger than the two Scimitar class vessels.


But will they hold that title for long? Aren't they apparently soon to be replaced by larger, faster and more capable ships??? Any news on this?

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Re: Scimitar Class Fast Patrol Vessels (RN)

Postby Tempest414 » 21 Apr 2018, 18:14

2 or 3 56m Vita's fitted with a 30mm and a Scanter 4100 radar would be nice it could allow for one to take a trip into the Western Med as needed on migrant SAR duties

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Re: Scimitar Class Fast Patrol Vessels (RN)

Postby SKB » 05 Jun 2018, 11:43

Gabriele wrote: :wave:



?
^? = Link?

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Re: Scimitar Class Fast Patrol Vessels (RN)

Postby Gabriele » 05 Jun 2018, 12:21

Why the question mark? I've been pretty clear, i think. The notice was published online today. Doesn't specify much else. No clear indications of size, weapons fit and endurance other than "12 hours" for a tipical patrol rising to 96 when leaving Gibraltar waters for longer range training.
You might also know me as Liger30, from that great forum than MP.net was.

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Re: Scimitar Class Fast Patrol Vessels (RN)

Postby dmereifield » 05 Jun 2018, 12:24

Gabriele wrote:Why the question mark? I've been pretty clear, i think. The notice was published online today. Doesn't specify much else. No clear indications of size, weapons fit and endurance other than "12 hours" for a tipical patrol rising to 96 when leaving Gibraltar waters for longer range training.


Thanks Gabriele. Any info on timing re in service date or contract award date etc?

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Re: Scimitar Class Fast Patrol Vessels (RN)

Postby Gabriele » 05 Jun 2018, 12:39

All bids must be in by noon on 27.7.2018, but i've not spotted a contract award date.
You might also know me as Liger30, from that great forum than MP.net was.

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Re: Scimitar Class Fast Patrol Vessels (RN)

Postby dmereifield » 05 Jun 2018, 13:45

Thanks - doesn't leave much time to put a bid together. Are there any indications of whom will bid (and what they will offer)? Does anyone have any suggestions on what the placements should/could be?

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Re: Scimitar Class Fast Patrol Vessels (RN)

Postby Poiuytrewq » 05 Jun 2018, 14:53

Tempest414 wrote:2 or 3 56m Vita's fitted with a 30mm and a Scanter 4100 radar would be nice it could allow for one to take a trip into the Western Med as needed on migrant SAR duties

Looks like something like your Vita proposal could be in with a real chance. :thumbup:
image.jpg

Your 30mm version is probably more likely than the 76mm/Exocet alternative. :D
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Re: Scimitar Class Fast Patrol Vessels (RN)

Postby Caribbean » 05 Jun 2018, 16:01

I must admit, I do quite like the idea of the Qatari version, with Goalkeeper in the rear turret :shock:
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Re: Scimitar Class Fast Patrol Vessels (RN)

Postby Aethulwulf » 05 Jun 2018, 16:22

The contract notice states that requirement is for
the design, build and in service support of 2 Royal Navy Fast Patrol Launches (35kts+). It is envisaged this can be met with Commercial-off-the-shelf (COTS) / Military-off-the-shelf (MOTS) or proven bespoke solutions may be considered. The requirement will include post-design services modification, in-service support and spares provision.

The RN Fast patrol launch shall be capable of operating in a wide variety of waters from Estuarial through the Littoral out to open Ocean in Seas up to Sea State 7

The RN Fast patrol launches are expected to achieve high levels of availability and reliability to deliver the operational capability and will be employed in a wide range of Operational roles but generally:
    Patrol and interception in territorial waters: The RN Fast patrol launch will operate within British Gibraltarian territorial waters (BGTW), day and night in all weathers, The patrols will typically last up to 12 hours.
    Fleet Protection: Operating within BGTW to provide armed force protection to visiting warships and submarines to Gibraltar.
    Training: The RN Fast Patrol Launch will conduct training operations from Gibraltar, the training duration ranges from day running to living on board for up to 96 hrs.
    Inter-Naval co-operation and deployments: Operating outside of BGTW, taking part in Inter-Naval co-operation exercises and operating from Foreign navy naval bases in the Western Mediterranean region for up to 96hrs with crews able to operate a watch system.
The estimated total value is between 6.5 million and 8 million GBP.


I would guess that these 'Launches' are unlikely to be much of radical change to the current capabilities.

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Re: Scimitar Class Fast Patrol Vessels (RN)

Postby Caribbean » 05 Jun 2018, 16:39

The pessimist sees difficulty in every opportunity. The optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty.
Winston Churchill

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Re: Scimitar Class Fast Patrol Vessels (RN)

Postby ArmChairCivvy » 05 Jun 2018, 17:28

Or... like this:


HOME EVENTS EXHIBITION NEWS IDEX 2015 ARTICLE
IDEX 2015
Ghannatha vessels delivered [IDX15D4]
26 February 2015

Abu Dhabi Ship Building (ADSB) has announced the completion of the Ghannatha Phase II programme after delivery of all 24 vessels to the UAE Navy. Built to a design developed by partner Swede Ship Marine (Stand C-015), the Ghannatha-class boats are high-speed, aluminiumbuilt multi-role combat vessels. Powered by two MTU diesels driving twin Rolls-Royce FF 600 waterjets, the design is capable of speeds up to 45kts.

ADSB (Stand B-022) won the Ghannatha Phase II contract, valued at nearly AED1 billion, in 2009. Under the deal, the company has delivered 12 new 27m Ghannatha boats to the UAE Navy, and retrofitted modifications to 12 existing 25m craft.

Six of the original vessels have been modified as mortar boats,receiving the Patria Nemo 120mm smooth-bore mortar system, plus an OTO Melara Hitrole-G 12.7mm gun mounting. These vessels have also received a GEM surveillance radar and updated VHF/UHF communications.
-[shoot first, ask then?]

The other six 25m Ghannatha boats have been modified to serve as fast gun boats, equipped with a Rheinmetall MLG 27 27mm gun and a Hitrole-G 12.7mm mounting. They also retain the capability to embark up to 40 troops.

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Re: Scimitar Class Fast Patrol Vessels (RN)

Postby Tempest414 » 06 Jun 2018, 10:57

Poiuytrewq wrote:
Tempest414 wrote:2 or 3 56m Vita's fitted with a 30mm and a Scanter 4100 radar would be nice it could allow for one to take a trip into the Western Med as needed on migrant SAR duties

Looks like something like your Vita proposal could be in with a real chance. :thumbup:
image.jpg

Your 30mm version is probably more likely than the 76mm/Exocet alternative. :D


yep for me this is a good choice all the design work is done. As said fit it with a 30mm and 2 x GPMG's and a Scanter 4100 radar. It also looks to me there would be room to operate a Camcopter S-100 with I Master radar when operating in the Western Med. also i think with the down grade in systems and modern automation and engines this ship could be crewed by 21 with a standing watch of 7 crew which would be a nice work rate when on a week long deployment

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Re: Scimitar Class Fast Patrol Vessels (RN)

Postby RichardIC » 06 Jun 2018, 11:21

Tempest414 wrote:yep for me this is a good choice all the design work is done. As said fit it with a 30mm and 2 x GPMG's and a Scanter 4100 radar. It also looks to me there would be room to operate a Camcopter S-100 with I Master radar when operating in the Western Med


... and you reckon you can get two for under 8 million quid?

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Re: Scimitar Class Fast Patrol Vessels (RN)

Postby Tempest414 » 06 Jun 2018, 11:41

as said the design work is done and if you oped for the 20mm off the river B1 I agree it is a push but with the need for 96 hours at sea and sea state 7 I feel we need something more than a 30m boat with 11 crew

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Re: Scimitar Class Fast Patrol Vessels (RN)

Postby Caribbean » 06 Jun 2018, 14:19

RichardIC wrote:and you reckon you can get two for under 8 million quid?

At a rough guess, £9-10m each is more likely, but who knows?
Tempest414 wrote:96 hours at sea and sea state 7

I can see a 30m doing the 96 hours at sea (adequate fresh water would presumably be the limiting factor) and also handling sea state 7. Nine metre waves would be somewhat daunting, admittedly - not sure I'd want to be out in that, but I think it falls into the do-able category. I seem to recall a rule-of-thumb that wave height shouldn't exceed one third of length (something to do with potential for capsize in a following seas IIRC), though good design and skilled handling can increase that considerably.
I think the fact that they have specified sea state 7 effectively sets the minimum length at around 27-30m. Anything bigger would be a bonus.

Zealot wrote:The Gibraltar Squadron is expecting to receive two new warships which will be more “capable”, “faster” and have “bigger guns”, to replace HMS Sabre and HMS Scimitar in the next two years.


"Bigger guns" - I suspect that one of the 20mm removed from the RFAs will adequately address that, though a 30mm would be even better :)
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Re: Scimitar Class Fast Patrol Vessels (RN)

Postby RetroSicotte » 06 Jun 2018, 17:00

The 20mms from the RFA vessels would be just fine to save some money on the short term honestly.

Give Gibraltar the guns, all the ammo, and let them just run it dry until such a time as it's non-operable, and then replace with 30mm in due course.

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Re: Scimitar Class Fast Patrol Vessels (RN)

Postby Zealot » 06 Jun 2018, 19:20

Zealot wrote:Take the Oerlikon 20mm cannon from the Batch 1 River Class. The only money spent would be on fitting them.


I'm already a head of you on that one ;)

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Re: Scimitar Class Fast Patrol Vessels (RN)

Postby dmereifield » 06 Jun 2018, 19:24

RetroSicotte wrote:The 20mms from the RFA vessels would be just fine to save some money on the short term honestly.

Give Gibraltar the guns, all the ammo, and let them just run it dry until such a time as it's non-operable, and then replace with 30mm in due course.


Has the requirement been stated as requiring something larger than the gpmg on the Scimitars?

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Re: Scimitar Class Fast Patrol Vessels (RN)

Postby Caribbean » 06 Jun 2018, 19:26

I think it was based on comments in a video upthread
The pessimist sees difficulty in every opportunity. The optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty.
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Re: Scimitar Class Fast Patrol Vessels (RN)

Postby dmereifield » 06 Jun 2018, 19:33

Zealot wrote:
Zealot wrote:Take the Oerlikon 20mm cannon from the Batch 1 River Class. The only money spent would be on fitting them.


I'm already a head of you on that one ;)


Maybe we will need them if we retain the B1's

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Re: Scimitar Class Fast Patrol Vessels (RN)

Postby S M H » 06 Jun 2018, 23:21

Looking at the requirement it is the same requirement that the Royal Air Force had for 1102 mcu from the 1970 s. Covered by the Mk 2 RTTL. The crash cover for the western end of the runway was reduced prior to the hand over to the Gibraltar Squadron. The ribs were acquired so they could be a response within the time. The armed requirement matches the requirement. The engine room repair access hatch was reinforced to take a 20 mm gun but not mounted. With the actions of the Spanish vessels. The speed required to respond to incursions will require 32 + knots. If the navy wants to return to longer transit to keep eye on Vladimir's naval anchorage they need 48 hours transits.

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Re: Scimitar Class Fast Patrol Vessels (RN)

Postby ArmChairCivvy » 07 Jun 2018, 07:57

dmereifield wrote:Maybe we will need them if we retain the B1's


I had thought them being kept in reserve was due to looking for a sale (or one pending, subject to negotiation). But Sir Humphrey (the blogger) had spotted this in March:
"t has been confirmed that as part of Brexit contingency planning, approximately £12m has been made available to the MOD to keep all three Batch 1 River class OPVs in reserve pending a full assessment of fishery protection requirements as the UK exits the EU.

This announcement, slipped out in Parliament confirms that for the first time in many years, the Royal Navy will actively maintain a small reserve fleet capability. Other than singleton LPDs like HMS INTREPID and HMS ALBION, who went into reserve after the 2010 SDSR, and whose £100m reactivation was so costly partly because she had spent years alongside without any crew onboard, the RN has actively tried to avoid maintaining any semblance of reserve ‘standby squadrons’ since the mid-1980s"


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