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Border Force Cutters.

Contains threads on Royal Navy equipment of the past, present and future.
Tempest414
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Re: Border Force Cutters.

Postby Tempest414 » 29 Nov 2018, 10:33

For me after brexit we will need at leased 3 more 42 meter cutters to cover between the UK & Ireland

Caribbean
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Re: Border Force Cutters.

Postby Caribbean » 29 Nov 2018, 12:32

Is that to stop people getting in, or getting out? :twisted:
The pessimist sees difficulty in every opportunity. The optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty.
Winston Churchill

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ArmChairCivvy
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Re: Border Force Cutters.

Postby ArmChairCivvy » 01 Jan 2019, 10:32

It is not just us, 'anoraks', counting the cutters anymore. This article does it in great detail
https://news.sky.com/story/border-force ... s-11595795

but more specifically, once again (the previous occurrence was in an appearance in front of a Parliamentary Committee) exposes the clue-less-ness of
"Previously, immigration minister Caroline Nokes had signalled a Home Office reluctance to put further Border Force vessels in the Channel.

On a visit to Dover at the weekend, she claimed more craft could act as a possible "magnet" for further attempted crossings.

However, Mr Javid said there was a "balance to be struck in terms of patrolling our waters" after announcing the redeployment of the cutters.

"There is a human side to it in that if you do come across anyone in distress, in a difficult situation, of course our officers will act and do the right thing," he added.

But, sending a "strong signal" to those considering a crossing attempt, Mr Javid said: "We will do everything we can to make sure it is not a success.

[... for] people to think if they leave a safe country like France "

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ArmChairCivvy
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Re: Border Force Cutters.

Postby ArmChairCivvy » 01 Jan 2019, 10:59

No wonder Mrs May called Mr Javid back, to be the "face" of the Gvmnt, after Ian Birrell painted this broader picture... so it would have been difficult :) for her to appear in person
- and she operates a Cameron-inspired scheme anyway: " bury the competitor, alive, @ the Home Office"

OK, the Birrell bit: "crass nationalism [...] As Home Secretary tore apart families from the Caribbean, introduced harsh policies to target poorer Britons with foreign spouses [...] and tried to turn GPs, landlords and businesses into Border Guards.

[...] doing her [level :) ] best to disrupt key sectors and public services with her red lines [...] brushing aside the reality that the bulk of migrants now [ever more so ;) and if you take the net figures, plenty more required :lol: ] come from outside the EU"

Caribbean
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Re: Border Force Cutters.

Postby Caribbean » 01 Jan 2019, 11:03

An interesting point (from the numbers POV), is that the original announcement (sometime in 2016, IIRC) was that there would be 8 x 20m RhIBs, introduced, with all of them being in service by 2018. I can only find references to six being in service at the moment. I wonder what happened to the other 2? Will they appear, or have they been "forgotten about"?
The pessimist sees difficulty in every opportunity. The optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty.
Winston Churchill

Tempest414
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Re: Border Force Cutters.

Postby Tempest414 » 01 Jan 2019, 12:43

as I said before a quick fix is to transfer 4 Archers over from the navy on loan

Pongoglo
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Re: Border Force Cutters.

Postby Pongoglo » 03 Jan 2019, 12:36

I agree about tasking some of the p2000s. They are robust little vessels, are actually quite fast and can easily handle the Channel even at its roughest, in such conditions one would hope in any case any sane migrant would be unlikely to attempt to cross. Also their radar for this type of work is actually pretty good.

It often concerns me that their value is underated and that their 'peace time ' role in training URNU cadets detracts from the reason they are retained by Defence. all of them have a core RN crew who are more than capable of handling the boat without any cadets embarked, indeed this happens quite frequently when they have been deployed to Cyprus or Gib on force protection tasks.

Only point I would disagree with is that they should be 'transfered' on loan, presumably to the Border Force. Although not complex vessels it would still take time to train them to operate the boat (Ship?) and in any case the Border Force maritime branch are struggling with manning as it is. According to the Maill when the two cutters( Seeker and Protector) being redeployed from the Med do eventually get here they will have to have their crews supplemented by RN bods in order to guarantee 24/7 manning as it is.

Simplest solution would be for the P2000s regular RN crew to drive the boat and carry a couple of Border Force officers to effect an arrest, same way that we do with USCG on carribbean tasks? The Mail also reports that the RAF will provide 'surveillance' , what do we reckon, to my mind the Shadow R1s would be ideal perhaps?

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... boats.html

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ArmChairCivvy
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Re: Border Force Cutters.

Postby ArmChairCivvy » 07 Jan 2019, 11:59

Pongoglo wrote:can easily handle the Channel even at its roughest, in such conditions one would hope in any case any sane migrant would be unlikely to attempt to cross. Also their radar for this type of work is actually pretty good.
... but they don't carry a RHIB.

In the older fleet (4 of the 5) each cutter carries a rigid hull inflatable boat (RHIB), which can carry 5 crew and a coxswain for boarding duties.

HMC Protector improves on this with a cradle for the launch, but is has proved difficult to find any material to show whether the cradle continues out with the RHIB flotation until it is all in the water or whether it is of this kind, making it smooth to ease the RHIB in (and not get the outboard ingesting water, before you even - try to! - start it)

- not such a problem with HMC RHIBs as they come with inboard engines (and waterjets)


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