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Yes. One of the 3 SSS will be in long maintenance or low readiness, and a single CVTF needs two SSS; one with CVTF and another going back to port for re-supply.Lord Jim wrote:Having Fort Victoria plus two new FSS will be enough to support a single Carrier Group, and that is all we are going to have at any one time.
What is bad with having a special force support ship? If it is a ship with as many crew as a.Bay, it will kill a Bay or Wave, or even Ft Victoria.Tempest414 wrote:The idea that the FLSS will be crewed by a core crew of 35 is complete horse shit these ships will need a crew of 80+ end of
You’ve outlined perfectly the question - do we want forces that are forward based that can make a difference or do we want a presence (for low level flag waiving, training, HADR etc events) with an occasional visit from the CSG that could itself make a difference. Anyone dreaming of the former either lives in the wrong country or wrong century.Lord Jim wrote:this whole idea of "East of Suez" need to be seriously reconsidered until the resources are in place to be able to have forces in place that can make a difference rather than just wave the flag and look good in photos.
Well - let's look at it from a slightly different perspective - what exactly, on (say) a Point class converted to an FLSS is going to require more crew. A flight deck is just a deck. An empty hangar has a couple of doors that might need maintenance, as will the davits for offloading boats and an additional accommodation block might, again, need some extra maintenance staff. Add in additional catering staff and that's about it. Thirteen extra bodies should easily cover the tasks. Everyone else comes from elsewhere, SF, RM, AAC etc etc. These are not going to be warships, with loads of complex weapons systems and sensors, or amphibs with docks. Think overgrown SD Victoria (which can deploy four RhIBs and two SF boats, as well as divers and SDVs, and operates with 16 crew and 72 "Special personnel").Tempest414 wrote:A core crew of 35 for the ships as shown is a complete Dream this number will just about be able to move it from port to port . A ship as simple as a Point class has a crew of 22 and we are now told a ship with all the kit of FLSS can be crewed by a extra 13 people wake up it will not happen
By his way of thinking the Bays can be core crewed by say 40 as all the same applies and the well dock is just a few hydraulic's and pumps that need maintainingCaribbean wrote:Well - let's look at it from a slightly different perspective - what exactly, on (say) a Point class converted to an FLSS is going to require more crew. A flight deck is just a deck. An empty hangar has a couple of doors that might need maintenance, as will the davits for offloading boats and an additional accommodation block might, again, need some extra maintenance staff. Add in additional catering staff and that's about it. Thirteen extra bodies should easily cover the tasks. Everyone else comes from elsewhere, SF, RM, AAC etc etc. These are not going to be warships, with loads of complex weapons systems and sensors, or amphibs with docks. Think overgrown SD Victoria (which can deploy four RhIBs and two SF boats, as well as divers and SDVs, and operates with 16 crew and 72 "Special personnel").
Caribbean wrote:additional catering staff and that's about it. Thirteen extra bodies
Tempest414 wrote:a type 23 /45 has galley team of 10 to 14
I knew something had been forgotten: with 45 days + 45 RAS'sed days on top... that's a lot of laundryTempest414 wrote:between 120 to 300 people embarked at any time
I do not think so. One of the cargo ship's "figure of merit" is low crew number. So, the ship systems are focussed on less man-power from the beginning. On the other hand, Bay class is an LSD, the Enforcer design, which is basically designed to have a crew of 100-150. In other words, basic hull design differs from Bay class LSD.Tempest414 wrote:By his way of thinking the Bays can be core crewed by say 40 as all the same applies and the well dock is just a few hydraulic's and pumps that need maintaining
Why not those "firefighting crew" also comes from "other than the ship core crew"? Maintenance of those "firefighting tools" will be needed by the core crew, but the firefighting and catering are "part time jobs", only needed when additional capabilities are carried on the ship.Also when the FAA / JHC embark they do so with aircrew and Maintenance staff not flight deck teams a fire fighters. a flight deck is not just another deck as another deck dose not need refuelling points fuel stores davits are the same they will have fuelling points all of this will need extra crew due to the fact of damage control
and as for just adding some catering staff a type 23 /45 has galley team of 10 to 14 so as these ships will have from between 120 to 300 people embarked at any time the same will apply
What really so now firefighting at sea is a part time job someone has to pay for these people to be vetted and trained and then then have them sat about in case the MOD want them . and once you start adding flight decks and all the kit required for Helicopter ops even part time these ships are no longer ferries. for me if FLSS dose not stack up then it is not the Bay's and Waves that should go it is the FLSSdonald_of_tokyo wrote:but the firefighting and catering are "part time jobs", only needed when additional capabilities are carried on the ship.
Yes, they probably could. If a decision was made to not operate the Bays as amphibs, then you could probably reduce the core crew to 40. A Bay counts the personnel that operate and maintain the dock as part of it's core crew, because the dock is, frankly, its reason for existing. It needs a lot of people to handle and service it. The FLSS doesn't have one.Tempest414 wrote:By his way of thinking the Bays can be core crewed by say 40 as all the same applies and the well dock is just a few hydraulic's and pumps that need maintaining
So why do all the catering staff have to be part of the core crew? The vessel needs to be equipped with a suitably sized galley and equipment to feed up to 400, but will only need to cart the personnel around when there is an EMF aboard.Tempest414 wrote: a type 23 /45 has galley team of 10 to 14
Yup -I forgot the laundry. But same comment as for the catering staff - the "surge" numbers could come from the EMF.ArmChairCivvy wrote:that's a lot of laundry
And this will be no different from the Points when they are sent to nastier parts of the world. Though the RM contingent could be anything between a section and a platoon (as this is never committed to print... or at least I haven't seen it).Tempest414 wrote:contract run they will have 35 crew plus 30 RN giving a crew of 60+
Isn't that large white radar dome the same kind thats now on (some) T23 hangar roofs?You spend ages loading cargo fuel, then RFA Fort Victoria comes along and pinches it.
SKB wrote:
(@RFATideforce) 3rd October 2020Isn't that large white radar dome the same kind thats now on (some) T23 hangar roofs?You spend ages loading cargo fuel, then RFA Fort Victoria comes along and pinches it.
On the Type 23's it's supposed to be a communications upgrade for their world trip so would make sense if it was the same but all domes look the same to me. Some bigger, some smaller, some white, some grey, but all round and hide their occupants.SKB wrote:Isn't that large white radar dome the same kind thats now on (some) T23 hangar roofs?
Well it’s had plenty of experience before to have provided influence it embarked 5 merlins for operation telic.Jensy wrote:Confirms the speculation from the QEC thread and elsewhere:
With the FSS contract being drafted (in crayon or otherwise) at this moment, I hope that the experiences of Fort Victoria's crew will influence both the FSS and possibly elements of MRSS designs going forward.
Only two, the other side is utilised for storage of equipment, including additional aircraft, as alluded to in Sw1's post above. Also if you notice the hangars are offset to port, to provide space and clearance for the crane:Ron5 wrote:Where's the third, approaching Merlin going to land? Or does the deck have 3 landing spots?
