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RFA Argus (Casualty Receiving Ship / Aviation Training Ship) (RFA)

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ArmChairCivvy
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Re: RFA Argus (Casualty Receiving Ship / Aviation Training Ship) (RFA)

Postby ArmChairCivvy » 31 Aug 2016, 15:12

Like that, too.

The hospital barge was "floated" already.

You brought up the avi training (bare base) barge.

We could also redo "Arapaho" as a leave behind, but fully configured workshop for an Apache Rgmnt.

That example is close to the BMT proposal, which lost a some length, in comparison, to add to the width.

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Re: RFA Argus (Casualty Receiving Ship / Aviation Training Ship) (RFA)

Postby Aethulwulf » 31 Aug 2016, 18:26

Aethulwulf wrote:Some years ago now, BMT published a paper on future ship concepts for repair and maintenance at sea. One of their concepts was the use of a heavy lift float on-float off (Flo-Flo) ship and a 120m × 32m barge. It may be possible to use the same concept for a future Role 3 medical facility.

The Flo-Flo vessels could operate in two modes according to operational tasking:

• Retain facilities onboard, operating as a “conventional” casualty ship.
• Deliver the facilities to a sheltered area or port and then leave.

A 120m × 32m barge would be large enough to host a 70 bed hospital and specialist facilities (inc. x-ray & CT, oxygen systems, labs, clinical waste incinerator, etc.), as well as a large accommodation block for 200+ medical staff and a 2 spot flight deck and hanger.

In addition to the flight deck, the barge could be designed with a steel beach and a loading ramp so that casualties can be delivered by landing craft or by ambulance when docked in port.

A multi-storey barge would be similar in construction to accommodation blocks built for the offshore sector, but designed to allow for the easy transport of casualties around the facilities.


So we could have:
• one barge with a Role 3 medical unit
• one barge with cranes and workshops etc. as a Diligence replacement
• one barge with a large flight deck for aviation training

If so, we would probably need two Flo-Flo ships, but they could be contracted under a similar arrangement to the Point ships - allowing one or both to be released for commercial use when not required by MOD.

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Re: RFA Argus (Casualty Receiving Ship / Aviation Training Ship) (RFA)

Postby ArmChairCivvy » 31 Aug 2016, 18:36

Aethulwulf wrote:• one barge with a Role 3 medical unit
• one barge with cranes and workshops etc. as a Diligence replacement
• one barge with a large flight deck for aviation training

If so, we would probably need two Flo-Flo ships, but they could be contracted under a similar arrangement to the Point ships - allowing one or both to be released for commercial use when not required by MOD.


Aviation training would always be a "leave behind" and the Diligence type of functionality highly selectable (according to circumstances). So you could still get away with two vessels (for Role 3 and Army aviation support; without having to overburden the ship to to shore transfers with the latter... and gaining many valuable days to being fully operational).

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Re: RFA Argus (Casualty Receiving Ship / Aviation Training Ship) (RFA)

Postby R686 » 31 Aug 2016, 20:36

One thing that also should be taken into account, both QECV won't be operational at the same time except for transitory periods. So the QECV might not be avalible if it has to be used as an LPH, Only way for it to work is a third flat top either as an LHD LPH or QECV, by have 2x LHD alleviates the need for a third QECV and cutting the F35B buy 8-10 airframes is nonsense, separate issue and alters force planning for greater RAF.


Sorry for the poor sentencing as the auto correct is a pain in the arse.

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Re: RFA Argus (Casualty Receiving Ship / Aviation Training Ship) (RFA)

Postby marktigger » 31 Aug 2016, 22:15

ArmChairCivvy wrote:
Engaging Strategy wrote:under the current circumstances half our eggs are in a decidedly cheap and nasty "basket" (Ocean) and the loss of one of the major amphibious platforms is still going to badly hobble us.


I don't see it that way at all (exc. for the current circumstances soon passing!):
- Ocean was designed to deliver a cdo bn
- both of the Albons were designed to deliver a cdo bn
... that's al of them covered, but let's assume the extended readiness ship is not... ready in time!

The three Bays have 700 in overload; so it is a matter of the Commander to assess the threat and distribute the types of loads
... all of the RM tooth (and a lot of the tail) can go plus a few 16x companies to throw in for good measure

Having said that, for the years (if any, but say, for 3) in-between the Ocean decommissioning and the first CVF being in any (tried) way useful, we will be in a bad place (for this type of capacity).



How big is a commando battle group when you add in all the Atts & dets 700 is about the size of the infantry then add in Artillery, Engineers, medics, signals etc

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Re: RFA Argus (Casualty Receiving Ship / Aviation Training Ship) (RFA)

Postby marktigger » 17 Sep 2016, 19:50

http://www.plymouthherald.co.uk/fire-ab ... GdywKXc.01


Fire Fire Fire

3 tenders in attendance!

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Re: RFA Argus (Casualty Receiving Ship / Aviation Training Ship) (RFA)

Postby arfah » 17 Sep 2016, 21:57

............
-<>-<>-<>-

Why this forum is pish!

1: Ineffective moderators
2: Too many fantasists ruining dedicated equipment threads with notions of what gun/mortar/artillery/missiles the equipment should have because it makes their panties moist.

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Re: RFA Argus (Casualty Receiving Ship / Aviation Training Ship) (RFA)

Postby marktigger » 17 Sep 2016, 22:54

likewise sounds from the news media that its engine room. Hopefully not much damage either and she won't go way of Bulwark and Victorious

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Re: RFA Argus (Casualty Receiving Ship / Aviation Training Ship) (RFA)

Postby dmereifield » 08 Oct 2016, 12:30

Argus in the Plymouth sound this morning, any idea what she is up to?

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Re: RFA Argus (Casualty Receiving Ship / Aviation Training Ship) (RFA)

Postby marktigger » 08 Oct 2016, 12:42

so engine room fire musn't have been to big an issue.

Any pictures?

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Re: RFA Argus (Casualty Receiving Ship / Aviation Training Ship) (RFA)

Postby dmereifield » 08 Oct 2016, 13:46

Looks like Argus
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

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Re: RFA Argus (Casualty Receiving Ship / Aviation Training Ship) (RFA)

Postby GibMariner » 15 Nov 2016, 08:48

RFA Argus Returns To Sea
Image
Casualty receiving ship RFA Argus has returned to sea following several months in refit.

She's been undergoing tests for weeks to ensure she's seaworthy, before getting the go-ahead to return to duty.

So with the green light, Captain Karl Woodfield, sailed the Argus out to sea.

The ship and her company are now at five days' notice to deploy on any operation around the world – just like in 2014, when they were sent to help with the Ebola crisis in Sierra Leone.

It's been a busy few weeks for the mixed crew on board.

There's 140 RFA personnel and 60 from the Royal Navy working alongside each other, while the Maritime Aviation Support Force from RNAS Culdrose are also on board providing aircraft handlers and engineers.

Using the deck are the Green Merlins of the Commando Helicopter Force, the Fleet Air Arm's Mark 8 Lynx and the Flag Officer Sea Training Dauphin.


http://forces.tv/05413992

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Re: RFA Argus (Casualty Receiving Ship / Aviation Training Ship) (RFA)

Postby marktigger » 03 Apr 2017, 19:13

when is Argus being withdrawn? there's a comment on facebook its next year?

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Re: RFA Argus (Casualty Receiving Ship / Aviation Training Ship) (RFA)

Postby Repulse » 03 Apr 2017, 22:35

marktigger wrote:when is Argus being withdrawn? there's a comment on facebook its next year?


Thought it was 2020
"For get this quite clear, every time we have to decide between Europe and the open sea, it is always the open sea we shall choose." - Winston Churchill

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Re: RFA Argus (Casualty Receiving Ship / Aviation Training Ship) (RFA)

Postby Pymes75 » 04 Apr 2017, 12:47

Repulse wrote:
marktigger wrote:when is Argus being withdrawn? there's a comment on facebook its next year?


Thought it was 2020


Apparently, it's been extended out to 2024:

https://www.theyworkforyou.com/wrans/?i ... .h&p=13077

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Re: RFA Argus (Casualty Receiving Ship / Aviation Training Ship) (RFA)

Postby ArmChairCivvy » 04 Apr 2017, 12:53

So, half a decade to decide "consideration of options to deliver the capability provided by ARGUS remains on-going."
- that is for a conversion, not for a new-build

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Re: RFA Argus (Casualty Receiving Ship / Aviation Training Ship) (RFA)

Postby donald_of_tokyo » 04 Apr 2017, 14:27

Pymes75 wrote:
marktigger wrote:when is Argus being withdrawn? there's a comment on facebook its next year?

Apparently, it's been extended out to 2024:
Good news! It means, Argus replacement is NOT coupled with PoW. Of course, it does not mean it is safe. But, at least till 2024, RN has "3rd" helicopter platform to be used as a helo supplement, when the "2nd CVF" is in long maintenance and cannot carry-out LPH role.

Yes, Argus's helo capability is pretty limited, and it cannot be called LPH. Actually she will work only as a helicopter hangar/base and not carry many RMs. But, surely far more better than having nothing, since she can provide helos to many vessels who do not carry many (or any) transport helicopters (Albions, Bays, Tides, T45s, as well as T26 (although there will be only 1 or 2 by 2024), in addition to River B2s and SSSs).

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Re: RFA Argus (Casualty Receiving Ship / Aviation Training Ship) (RFA)

Postby marktigger » 04 Apr 2017, 18:54

argus failed as an LPH havin no accomadation for embarked troops

does OSD mean in comission? as shed could pay off into reserve

according to the facebook poster it's in Navy News

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Re: RFA Argus (Casualty Receiving Ship / Aviation Training Ship) (RFA)

Postby shark bait » 04 Apr 2017, 19:57

Argus can't be considered part of the RN's vertical lift infrastructure, it is way too low performance.

It is however extremely valuable, especially since we're expecting RAF and Army pilots to keep their carrier skill sharp, we absolutely need an aviation training ship.

A basic hull for HADR work is also of great value, she would make a good Caribbean patrol, rotating with a River when shes not required in her training role.
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Re: RFA Argus (Casualty Receiving Ship / Aviation Training Ship) (RFA)

Postby Repulse » 04 Apr 2017, 23:18

Whilst Argus cannot be used as ama LPH for the reasons given above, could it not be still fill the original Aviation Support ships role? The ability to operate 6 Merlins attached to an Albion isn't the best but better than nothing.
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Re: RFA Argus (Casualty Receiving Ship / Aviation Training Ship) (RFA)

Postby Caribbean » 05 Apr 2017, 00:54

shark bait wrote:A basic hull for HADR work is also of great value, she would make a good Caribbean patrol

Indeed - almost ideal for the hurricane season, with good hospital facilities, helicopters and the ability to carry a lot of supplies. If the RFA have to give her up, would she be suitable for conversion to a civilian-operated HADR/hospital ship, operated by DfID?
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Re: RFA Argus (Casualty Receiving Ship / Aviation Training Ship) (RFA)

Postby shark bait » 05 Apr 2017, 08:12

@Caribbean; She's very old, can't imagine she will have much economical life left in her once her RFA service is over. Much better to peruse another civilian conversion. Its desirable to do exactly the same thing again, like you say her characteristics make her perfect for HADR roles, as witnessed by her contributions in West Africa recently.



@Repulse; Does Argus still have the ability to operate 6 Merlins? I thought she has been stripped right back down to basics, with little facilities for supporting aircraft long term, especially 6 Merlin, an aircraft not know to be a bit maintenance heavy.
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Re: RFA Argus (Casualty Receiving Ship / Aviation Training Ship) (RFA)

Postby ArmChairCivvy » 05 Apr 2017, 08:52

shark bait wrote: Its desirable to do exactly the same thing again


I looked into the details and last time around, after the Falklands use, the conversion took four years. A lot of trickstery (is that a word?) was required to make her stable under different loading conditions. Unlike in a car transport (of similar construction) you cannot spread the load evenly as different parts of the vessel have a specific function.
- so choosing the base vessel (if conversion is the way to go) should be done very carefully

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Re: RFA Argus (Casualty Receiving Ship / Aviation Training Ship) (RFA)

Postby Jake1992 » 05 Apr 2017, 09:14

Does anyone have any rough idea of what the cost of conversion would be to the cost of purpose build ?
And time scale as in above how it took 4 years to convert argus compared to new build ?

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Re: RFA Argus (Casualty Receiving Ship / Aviation Training Ship) (RFA)

Postby ArmChairCivvy » 05 Apr 2017, 09:54

Now you will need to convert this into today's money
"completed in March of 1987 and entered RFA service after a changeover program that cost 45 million pounds. In October of that year, she officially began her sea trials. She was subsequently christened the "RFA Argus A135 (Aviation Training Ship)"["]
and that was before the further conversion, stripping out a lot of the aviation/ ferrying capacity, to have the medical role.

As containerised or otherwise modular medical facilities are now the norm, one could think of a dual-purpose vessel, on the lines of HMS Ocean:
- ferry an Apache Rgmnt, with a couple of days of initial ops from the ship, and then all of it (workshops, stores) to be transferred ashore
- alternatively, fit it out with the medical facilities even before leaving port (and arrange for the self-ferry of Apaches, and for other means for their support to be transported)


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