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RFA Argus (Casualty Receiving Ship / Aviation Training Ship) (RFA)

Contains threads on Royal Navy equipment of the past, present and future.
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ArmChairCivvy
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Re: RFA Argus (Casualty Receiving Ship / Aviation Training Ship) (RFA)

Postby ArmChairCivvy » 31 May 2019, 22:48

Scimitar54 wrote:How about getting Argus to "soldier on" along with Albion & Bulwark and their limited helicopter facilities


It's not a bad idea. Of the Forts, only Ft. Vic has had refurb (lately) so she will last to c. 2027 and with the SSSs coming, could do twilight duty in a similar way (and provide supplies, which otherwise will consume precious LIMs on the more dedicated amph. shipping).

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Re: RFA Argus (Casualty Receiving Ship / Aviation Training Ship) (RFA)

Postby Repulse » 01 Jun 2019, 08:21

In principle making best use of what we have and extend isn’t a bad proposition. The main issue is Argus’s age, it is almost 50 years already will it go on for another 20yrs till replacement?

Also, the assumption being made is that the end state will be 2 LHDs, which I think is far from certain. I still think that the analysis performed in the late 80s/90s holds, to have an effective 100% ARG capability a group of ships each optimised for its role (and can be position as such) is the best mix - e.g. 2 LPH (equivalents), 2 LPDs + 4 LSDs.

Would say now that a new build / converted Aviation Support Ship with similar capacity as the original Argus would be a smart purchase, keeping Ft Victoria running on and releasing the cash for the 3rd FSS.
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SW1
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Re: RFA Argus (Casualty Receiving Ship / Aviation Training Ship) (RFA)

Postby SW1 » 01 Jun 2019, 09:06

Of course when you get to the 2030s such ideas will need to compete with, type 45 replacement, astute replacement (if the drumbeat is to continue), Typhoon replacement, rotorcraft replacement, voyager replacement to name but a few.

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Re: RFA Argus (Casualty Receiving Ship / Aviation Training Ship) (RFA)

Postby Scimitar54 » 01 Jun 2019, 09:10

Except that by spending substantial money and effort on further stop-gaps, you will certainly delay or even rule out, getting what you actually need.

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Repulse
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Re: RFA Argus (Casualty Receiving Ship / Aviation Training Ship) (RFA)

Postby Repulse » 01 Jun 2019, 09:47

Scimitar54, spending money on stop gaps i agree is not what we should be doing. The point is can we afford to wait long, and do we know what we are aiming for - 2 “cheap” LHDs may look nice to some now but is it really what we need? A2D systems will increase in capability resulting in either a larger need for OTH basing or ships that can operate close to shore. Helicopter carriers I think should always operate far from shore with suitable AAW capability/ escorts.

I think LHDs are a compromise that is ok for smaller nations who will be more focused on low end ops / HADR - it depends where on the spectrum the RN wants to be.
"For get this quite clear, every time we have to decide between Europe and the open sea, it is always the open sea we shall choose." - Winston Churchill

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Repulse
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Re: RFA Argus (Casualty Receiving Ship / Aviation Training Ship) (RFA)

Postby Repulse » 01 Jun 2019, 11:35

Is this the first time the RN has referred to Argus as a Helicopter Support Vessel?

https://www.royalnavy.mod.uk/news-and-l ... te-denmark
"For get this quite clear, every time we have to decide between Europe and the open sea, it is always the open sea we shall choose." - Winston Churchill

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Re: RFA Argus (Casualty Receiving Ship / Aviation Training Ship) (RFA)

Postby Caribbean » 01 Jun 2019, 12:49

Maybe the Italians could sell us one of their decommissioned San Giorgio-class nice and cheap? Re-fit it and add an aircraft lift down to the vehicle deck (if it doesn't already have one) and it could be configured for one of a number of roles - aviation training, HADR, PCRS (with a modular hospital) and possibly even the FLSS roles. Quite limited, so no threat to the carriers, relatively cheap, fairly modest crew requirements (with accommodation for specialists when needed) and probably an improvement over Argus for aircraft handling.
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Repulse
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Re: RFA Argus (Casualty Receiving Ship / Aviation Training Ship) (RFA)

Postby Repulse » 01 Jun 2019, 14:43

Caribbean, San Giorgio-class have lifts but for only suitable for small helicopters and have limited aviation facilities, would personally say its better to buy a large container ship and convert from there.


Off-topic, but have always liked the San Giorgio-class and could see something similar actually well placed as the basis for a future MCM UUV/UAV mothership.
"For get this quite clear, every time we have to decide between Europe and the open sea, it is always the open sea we shall choose." - Winston Churchill

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Re: RFA Argus (Casualty Receiving Ship / Aviation Training Ship) (RFA)

Postby Caribbean » 01 Jun 2019, 15:22

Repulse wrote:San Giorgio-class have lifts but for only suitable for small helicopters and have limited aviation facilities

I suspected that might be the case, though the hangar looks quite capacious from these shots. Might not have enough height for Merlin
https://www.google.com/search?q=san+giorgio+class+vehicle+deck+photo&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiOwM6uvMjiAhUIURUIHZApCBcQ_AUIECgB&biw=1536&bih=750#imgdii=055gp_ND43-iBM:&imgrc=k4ebNlI6XGcH7M:
The pessimist sees difficulty in every opportunity. The optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty.
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Repulse
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Re: RFA Argus (Casualty Receiving Ship / Aviation Training Ship) (RFA)

Postby Repulse » 02 Jun 2019, 09:31

More nice pics of Argus’s lift and hangar.

"For get this quite clear, every time we have to decide between Europe and the open sea, it is always the open sea we shall choose." - Winston Churchill

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Re: RFA Argus (Casualty Receiving Ship / Aviation Training Ship) (RFA)

Postby SKB » 14 Jul 2019, 13:08



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