UK Defence Forum

KyleG wrote:Can't find any info on this online so thought I may as well ask here, does anyone know if there's any reason why the latest Phalanx models seem to often come in all over grey rather than grey with a white radome? Might not be any real reason at all, but I'm just a bit curious

R686 wrote:Phalanx going in for upgrade soon by the look of it

SKB wrote:

wargame_insomniac wrote: ↑20 Jan 2022, 19:17 CIWS Phalanx is the current Close in Weapon System used by both USN and RN, and many other of the allied navies. It as introduced in 1980 so has been around for over 4 decades, and includes a radar-guided 20 mm (0.8 in) Vulcan cannon mounted on a swiveling base, as an automated point defence weapon system.

I have noted that the USN has started adding SeaRAM instead of Phalanx, either as well as e.g. on aircraft carriers, or instead of e.g. on San Antonio class LPD or Independance class LCS (which are not currently fitted with VLS launchers). SeaRAM replaced the 20mm cannon with an 11 cell RIM-116 Rolling Airframe Missile launcher, so that it still operates autonomously but doubling the maximum range from 5km for Phalanx to 10km for SeaRAM, but a much longer effective range.

I realise that there is some overlap between SeaRAM and the likes of Martlett and CAMM missile systems. But as Anti-Ship-Missiles (both air-launched and sea-launched) are coming with increasingly higher speeds, from subsonic to supersonic to hypersonic. If the Phalanx has a maximum effective range of between 1.5-2.0 km, the faster the missile was travelling, the more likely shrapnel would still hit and damage the ship.

Should the RN follow the USN and start to introduce SeaRAM as a complement or even a replacement for Phalanx? It just gives more layers of protection with both Russia and China seeming to favour massed missile attacks.

wargame_insomniac wrote: ↑20 Jan 2022, 19:17 CIWS Phalanx is the current Close in Weapon System used by both USN and RN, and many other of the allied navies. It as introduced in 1980 so has been around for over 4 decades, and includes a radar-guided 20 mm (0.8 in) Vulcan cannon mounted on a swiveling base, as an automated point defence weapon system.

I have noted that the USN has started adding SeaRAM instead of Phalanx, either as well as e.g. on aircraft carriers, or instead of e.g. on San Antonio class LPD or Independance class LCS (which are not currently fitted with VLS launchers). SeaRAM replaced the 20mm cannon with an 11 cell RIM-116 Rolling Airframe Missile launcher, so that it still operates autonomously but doubling the maximum range from 5km for Phalanx to 10km for SeaRAM, but a much longer effective range.

I realise that there is some overlap between SeaRAM and the likes of Martlett and CAMM missile systems. But as Anti-Ship-Missiles (both air-launched and sea-launched) are coming with increasingly higher speeds, from subsonic to supersonic to hypersonic. If the Phalanx has a maximum effective range of between 1.5-2.0 km, the faster the missile was travelling, the more likely shrapnel would still hit and damage the ship.

Should the RN follow the USN and start to introduce SeaRAM as a complement or even a replacement for Phalanx? It just gives more layers of protection with both Russia and China seeming to favour massed missile attacks.

Rentaghost wrote: ↑21 Jan 2022, 09:52 with Phalanx as the hail Mary last ditch option.

Rentaghost wrote: ↑21 Jan 2022, 09:52 Something on a trainable launcher like Starstreak might be notionally useful.

Dahedd wrote: ↑20 Jan 2022, 21:58 I think I rather see the new 40mm Bofors, as soon to be used on the T31 & as many additional Seaceptor silos as possible wheeled out across the fleet.

40mm on everything from the Rivers up, RN & RFA, same with VLS/Mushroom farms for Ceptor.

Rentaghost wrote: ↑21 Jan 2022, 09:52

wargame_insomniac wrote: ↑20 Jan 2022, 19:17 CIWS Phalanx is the current Close in Weapon System used by both USN and RN, and many other of the allied navies. It as introduced in 1980 so has been around for over 4 decades, and includes a radar-guided 20 mm (0.8 in) Vulcan cannon mounted on a swiveling base, as an automated point defence weapon system.

I have noted that the USN has started adding SeaRAM instead of Phalanx, either as well as e.g. on aircraft carriers, or instead of e.g. on San Antonio class LPD or Independance class LCS (which are not currently fitted with VLS launchers). SeaRAM replaced the 20mm cannon with an 11 cell RIM-116 Rolling Airframe Missile launcher, so that it still operates autonomously but doubling the maximum range from 5km for Phalanx to 10km for SeaRAM, but a much longer effective range.

I realise that there is some overlap between SeaRAM and the likes of Martlett and CAMM missile systems. But as Anti-Ship-Missiles (both air-launched and sea-launched) are coming with increasingly higher speeds, from subsonic to supersonic to hypersonic. If the Phalanx has a maximum effective range of between 1.5-2.0 km, the faster the missile was travelling, the more likely shrapnel would still hit and damage the ship.

Should the RN follow the USN and start to introduce SeaRAM as a complement or even a replacement for Phalanx? It just gives more layers of protection with both Russia and China seeming to favour massed missile attacks.

As I understand it, CAMM effectively straddles that capability area between SeaRam and the Sparrow ESSM. It has the effective minimum range under 1km that let's it be used as a point defence weapon but long enough effective range to be used in a small area defence role.

The fact that the T45s are being retrofitted with CAMM suggests the RN sees it as its primary point defence system, with Phalanx as the hail Mary last ditch option.

I suppose we could replace it with another missile system but would likely always end up duplicating part of CAMM's role.

From an amateur's point of view there may be some utility in a second point defence system with a different sensor? In a heavy EW degraded environment, maybe something that doesn't queue on active radar homing would be useful, if your opponent had an EW suite on board the attacking missile that helped it degrade lock on?

Something on a trainable launcher like Starstreak might be notionally useful. Fairly passive sensing technique that is hard to jam, and launches extremely fast (+mach 4?) Tungsten projectiles that would likely provide decent stopping power against incoming supersonic heavy AShMs?

Cooper wrote: ↑21 Jan 2022, 09:54

Rentaghost wrote: ↑21 Jan 2022, 09:52 with Phalanx as the hail Mary last ditch option.

They've never really been anything other than that