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Type 31 General Purpose Frigate [News Only]

Contains threads on Royal Navy equipment of the past, present and future.

What will be the result of the 'Lighter Frigate' programme?

Programme cancelled, RN down to 14 escorts
51
11%
Programme cancelled & replaced with GP T26
13
3%
A number of heavy OPVs spun as "frigates"
116
26%
An LCS-like modular ship
20
4%
A modernised Type 23
21
5%
A Type 26-lite
65
14%
Less than 5 hulls
20
4%
5 hulls
60
13%
More than 5 hulls
88
19%
 
Total votes: 454

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shark bait
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Re: Type 31 General Purpose Frigate [News Only]

Postby shark bait » 13 Mar 2019, 15:13

Caribbean wrote: that even being considered for an RN design, raises the international profile and awareness of said design considerably.

This is delusional Britishness at it's best. Shake the white ensign and the Admirals of the world will come running! :crazy:
@LandSharkUK

Caribbean
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Re: Type 31 General Purpose Frigate [News Only]

Postby Caribbean » 13 Mar 2019, 17:01

Poiuytrewq wrote:Are we now able to conclude with any certainty that Babcock has not purchased the Iver Huitfeldt IP after all?

Does this confirm that Babcock are, as many suspected simply building a Foreign design under licence?

It is possible, but there are so many forms that a deal between Team 31 and OMT could take that they could have anything between a basic "building a Foreign design under licence" type deal, all the way up to Babcocks actually owning the IP, with OMT paying a license fee to Babcocks! Personally, I suspect (and this is just a personal opinion) that the most likely arrangement is somewhere in between, with both parties having the right initiate and close sales, with agreed work-sharing/ fee payment between them.
The pessimist sees difficulty in every opportunity. The optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty.
Winston Churchill

Tempest414
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Re: Type 31 General Purpose Frigate [News Only]

Postby Tempest414 » 13 Mar 2019, 17:10

Could the IP be under Team 31 rather an OMT or Babcock and there for a possible sale for this team

Caribbean
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Re: Type 31 General Purpose Frigate [News Only]

Postby Caribbean » 13 Mar 2019, 17:28

shark bait wrote:This is delusional Britishness at it's best. Shake the white ensign and the Admirals of the world will come running!

Don't travel much, do you (and I don't include a few weeks in wherever on holiday as travelling - that's just visiting and staying in the tourist bubble)? Having spent a fairly major part of my life living (as in years at a time) in the Middle East, Africa, the Caribbean and the USA, I can say with some certainty that, love us or loath us, other countries certainly take notice of what the UK and it's institutions do. Not always in a positive way, I grant you, but they take notice.

There again, I suppose that, after years of trying to sell the design, with no interest beyond "OK, thanks for the info", it's purely co-incidental that OMT have finally got their first nibble after the RN takes a look at the design.
The pessimist sees difficulty in every opportunity. The optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty.
Winston Churchill

Aethulwulf
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Re: Type 31 General Purpose Frigate [News Only]

Postby Aethulwulf » 13 Mar 2019, 23:12

Nice overview from Naval News of Tacticos CMS (which is part of the Team 31 bid).

https://youtu.be/H7la0frBOfE

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Pseudo
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Re: Type 31 General Purpose Frigate [News Only]

Postby Pseudo » 13 Mar 2019, 23:13

Caribbean wrote:There again, I suppose that, after years of trying to sell the design, with no interest beyond "OK, thanks for the info", it's purely co-incidental that OMT have finally got their first nibble after the RN takes a look at the design.

You could equally assume that after the flaws in Navantia's F100 designs were made apparent by the loss of HNoMS Helge Ingstad countries are looking for affordable alternatives.

donald_of_tokyo
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Re: Type 31 General Purpose Frigate [News Only]

Postby donald_of_tokyo » 14 Mar 2019, 00:08

Poiuytrewq wrote:Are we now able to conclude with any certainty that Babcock has not purchased the Iver Huitfeldt IP after all?

Does this confirm that Babcock are, as many suspected simply building a Foreign design under licence?
We cannot conclude now. What is clear is, at now still IP is owned by OMT. UK only paid a very little amount of money to Babcock, so this is not surprising.

I guess, if any license transfer take place, it shall surely be at/after the MOD contract for 1.25B GBP signed.

But anyway, I personally think it is highly possible that, Babcock is just building foreign design in UK. Babcock may get "permission" to bid it for export, but still OMT will retain all rights. I understand similar agreements were there for, RAN Collins class submarine (Swedish design), and Babcock's Vard-7 80m/90m OPV designs (was Canadian (and now is Italian?) owned design). These agreement do not omit the original license holder to bid by themselves.

Tempest414
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Re: Type 31 General Purpose Frigate [News Only]

Postby Tempest414 » 14 Mar 2019, 18:25

Given that we don't know who has the IP for A140 if we say that the IP is under Team 31 could a export order of any type in the run up to the Type 31 contract have any bearing or not

Ron5
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Re: Type 31 General Purpose Frigate [News Only]

Postby Ron5 » 14 Mar 2019, 20:25

Tempest414 wrote:Given that we don't know who has the IP for A140 if we say that the IP is under Team 31 could a export order of any type in the run up to the Type 31 contract have any bearing or not


Seems rather improbable that anyone one buy a Type 31 (of any species) before the RN does.

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Re: Type 31 General Purpose Frigate [News Only]

Postby Ron5 » 14 Mar 2019, 20:28

RichardIC wrote:And some sort-of T31 related news.

Indonesia leans towards Iver Huitfeldt class for frigate acquisition

Image

https://www.janes.com/article/87175/indonesia-leans-towards-iver-huitfeldt-class-for-frigate-acquisition


Seems a tad bit sad that Indonesia has a higher budget (per ship) than the UK does.

donald_of_tokyo
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Re: Type 31 General Purpose Frigate [News Only]

Postby donald_of_tokyo » 14 Mar 2019, 22:12

1: Danish and Indonesian deal date back to, at least May 2017. They are front-runner than Babcock.


2:
Ron5 wrote:Seems a tad bit sad that Indonesia has a higher budget (per ship) than the UK does.
Not sure. 720M USD is 543M GBP, 271M GBP per hull. Yes it is slightly higher then UK 250M GBP per hull. But,
- it is for 2 hulls vs 5 hulls. Detailed-design and initial cost can easily reverse it. (no)
- as "what is included" differs a lot, direct comparison is not easy. In many case, UK budget looks like including more, and hence price looks higher, which leads to, yes "Indonesian IH class will be better invested than UK Arrowhead 140". (yes)

So, in conclusion, I agree to Ron5-san. :D

Tempest414
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Re: Type 31 General Purpose Frigate [News Only]

Postby Tempest414 » 15 Mar 2019, 09:33

donald_of_tokyo wrote:which leads to, yes "Indonesian IH class will be better invested than UK Arrowhead 140". (yes)


However it should also be said that the Indonesian IH will be there tier 1 ship where A140 will be the UK tier 2 ship this is not to say the UK should not be spending more on T-31


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