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Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

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Ron5
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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Postby Ron5 » 20 Mar 2020, 22:41

djkeos wrote:Have a look at this 6:30 on the video....



And another from 1:56 on the next one...



That's not an SRVL either. At no time were any of the Russian aircraft relying on partial wing borne lift. They were just drifting vertical landings.

Grade: F.

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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Postby seaspear » 20 Mar 2020, 23:32

serge750 wrote:Probably because the gov has got no money...but one day we could see something maybe a STOVL UCAV ? with the capability to do the AEW or refueling in one design ? wouldn't need to be fast just a longish endurance.. don't think we would get anything before the late 2030's/2040

That makes me think, could we one day see a STOVL long range picket style airbourne early warning subsonic autonomous aircraft with a couple of air to air missiles, (far from the carrier doing long endurance CAP/AEW ) then use the manned F35b when the picket craft have a contact?

It would take a few years to develop such a craft ,but if you were to consider the various navies that could be deploying the f35b off small carriers it might be economical for a large company to take a punt on some research

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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Postby ArmChairCivvy » 21 Mar 2020, 05:45

If we drop the refuelling mission (see payload figure) then this TERN design is not far off:
"According to Northrop Grumman, once fully functional, the VTOL UAV will have a range of 600 nautical miles and be able to carry 1,000 pounds of ordinance or surveillance payload.

The Tern project comes right in line with the military’s transition to relying on UAV’s for surveillance work and, in the near future, offensive capabilities as well. However, the decision to turn to a VTOL take-off paradigm shows that the military and Navy realize that while the space aboard ships and flight decks are limited, the envelope of their missions is expanding.

Apparently, Tern may be part of the solution to the military’s mission creep issues. "

The project was launched in 2014 and NG were awarded the above contract in 2016.
- a bit like a rejuvenated

Dahedd
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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Postby Dahedd » 21 Mar 2020, 11:24

I saw a cgi concept for that version of Tern a wee while back. Every other concept of late seems to have been a tilt rotor though.

https://www.bing.com/images/search?view ... 3,4,6,8,10

PhillyJ
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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Postby PhillyJ » 25 Mar 2020, 09:33

Well my Lad is on his way home today, but obviously I shall not go down to see him enter port due to the current 'Clampdown' (great Clash song by the way) but I do wonder how many will though as it has been posted on Twitter.

Not sure why they are coming home with the current situation as they will not be able to hit the pubs and clubs and carried out their first RAS yesterday, which my nipper was involved with...even with suspected cracked/broken ribs due to some larking around in his mess. :eh: so should be able to stay out at sea.

Lucky to say I've been on both the ships involved in this RAS.


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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Postby Timmymagic » 25 Mar 2020, 11:10

Not sure if this has been posted before, first time I've seen it, RAS with HMS QE from the perspective of a Tide Class tanker:


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SKB
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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Postby SKB » 25 Mar 2020, 14:12

PoW returns home to Portsmouth

HMS Warrior LIVE webcam: https://www.pscp.tv/w/1lPJqVYXdNexb?t=19

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(@@SteveMo95030589) 25th March 2020

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(@Laller75) 25th March 2020

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(@HMNBPortsmouth) 25th March 2020

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(@GrantyNUFC2020) 25th March 2020

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SKB
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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Postby SKB » 25 Mar 2020, 14:30

And some videos....



(ships, planes and gaming) 25th March 2020


(STRN/PortsmouthProud) 25th March 2020

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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Postby Timmymagic » 25 Mar 2020, 17:53

serge750 wrote:That makes me think, could we one day see a STOVL long range picket style airbourne early warning subsonic autonomous aircraft with a couple of air to air missiles, (far from the carrier doing long endurance CAP/AEW ) then use the manned F35b when the picket craft have a contact?


The Turks are looking at using a new jet powered drone to do the same (it's essentially a jet powered Bayraktar drone). You could argue that the RAF should use other aircraft to do peacetime QRA than Typhoon in a lot of circumstances, if you're sending a Voyager up anyway why not just use that to shadow a Bear instead of sending Typhoon all the time as well. A Gulfstream business jet could shadow any Russian long range aviation probing our defences and not require constant refuelling...

Long range UAV's with modern long range missiles change all this though. A Reaper style drone that could be launched from QE Class would bring a lot to the table. With a couple of Meteor onboard it wouldn't need extreme speed to get to an intercept, the range and speed would be there. As a standing 24 hr CAP it would save a lot of flying hours on the limited numbers of F-35B onboard.

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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Postby Jake1992 » 25 Mar 2020, 17:58

Timmymagic wrote:
serge750 wrote:That makes me think, could we one day see a STOVL long range picket style airbourne early warning subsonic autonomous aircraft with a couple of air to air missiles, (far from the carrier doing long endurance CAP/AEW ) then use the manned F35b when the picket craft have a contact?


The Turks are looking at using a new jet powered drone to do the same (it's essentially a jet powered Bayraktar drone). You could argue that the RAF should use other aircraft to do peacetime QRA than Typhoon in a lot of circumstances, if you're sending a Voyager up anyway why not just use that to shadow a Bear instead of sending Typhoon all the time as well. A Gulfstream business jet could shadow any Russian long range aviation probing our defences and not require constant refuelling...

Long range UAV's with modern long range missiles change all this though. A Reaper style drone that could be launched from QE Class would bring a lot to the table. With a couple of Meteor onboard it wouldn't need extreme speed to get to an intercept, the range and speed would be there. As a standing 24 hr CAP it would save a lot of flying hours on the limited numbers of F-35B onboard.


What do we consider long range ?

Would AAR apply or be needed ?

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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Postby Timmymagic » 25 Mar 2020, 20:34

Jake1992 wrote:What do we consider long range ?

Would AAR apply or be needed ?


Protector can stay up for 24 hours+. Dependent on payload thats at least 3,000 mile range. No need for AAR.

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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Postby Jake1992 » 25 Mar 2020, 21:19

Timmymagic wrote:
Jake1992 wrote:What do we consider long range ?

Would AAR apply or be needed ?


Protector can stay up for 24 hours+. Dependent on payload thats at least 3,000 mile range. No need for AAR.


From what Iv seen being planned it’ll be a real struggle to get a UAV with that range and duration in a STOVL formate.
The best Iv seen so far is the planned V-247 that’s planned to have a range of 1,000nm and a duration of up to 18 hours, but some sites Iv read on it do say it’ll be AAR capable. This sort of design would give a STOVL reaper like UAV.

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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Postby seaspear » 25 Mar 2020, 21:35

So how does the Protector detect oncoming threats ? why wouldnt oncoming aircraft simply destroy it or go around it as it would not have for instance the sensors like an f35b or even a Typhoon

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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Postby SW1 » 25 Mar 2020, 22:04

QRA requires supersonic performance no if no buts no maybes. The aircraft being intercepted will be at height and possibly moving away from intercepting a/c’s launch point. Subsonic a/c would never catch up.

Point defence may not require supersonic performance because you know we’re the enemy is heading eg straight for you.

If you UAVs with the range and endurance specified why bother with the ship or making it stovl. Something along the lines of the kratos concept maybe a very interesting addition to naval ships.

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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Postby Ron5 » 25 Mar 2020, 22:38

SW1 wrote:QRA requires supersonic performance no if no buts no maybes. The aircraft being intercepted will be at height and possibly moving away from intercepting a/c’s launch point. Subsonic a/c would never catch up.

Point defence may not require supersonic performance because you know we’re the enemy is heading eg straight for you.

If you UAVs with the range and endurance specified why bother with the ship or making it stovl. Something along the lines of the kratos concept maybe a very interesting addition to naval ships.


The carriers are no bother to us Mr RAF man.

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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Postby Timmymagic » 26 Mar 2020, 09:50

Jake1992 wrote:From what Iv seen being planned it’ll be a real struggle to get a UAV with that range and duration in a STOVL formate.


The Turks are looking to put full size UAV's on their F-35B less Andadolu Class. Lets see how that goes...

seaspear wrote:So how does the Protector detect oncoming threats ?


Stick a radar on it. Plenty have been demo'd on Reaper.

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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Postby Jake1992 » 26 Mar 2020, 10:29

Timmymagic wrote:
Jake1992 wrote:From what Iv seen being planned it’ll be a real struggle to get a UAV with that range and duration in a STOVL formate.


The Turks are looking to put full size UAV's on their F-35B less Andadolu Class. Lets see how that goes...

seaspear wrote:So how does the Protector detect oncoming threats ?


Stick a radar on it. Plenty have been demo'd on Reaper.


It’ll be interesting to see that’s for sure but does any UAV need a range of 3,000nm or a duration of 24hrs with out AAR? That is far greater than any manned fighter.

I keep coming back to it but the plans for theV-247 seems to give a good range and duration along with potential AAR. All this in at least 3 different variants, AEW ( taking crowns nest role )
Attack ( STOVL protector )
Electronic Warfare ( giving us a similar capability to Growlers )

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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Postby Timmymagic » 26 Mar 2020, 13:00

Jake1992 wrote:It’ll be interesting to see that’s for sure but does any UAV need a range of 3,000nm or a duration of 24hrs with out AAR? That is far greater than any manned fighter.


When you've got high lift, are efficiently cruising at 180 mph at 40,000ft with no need to carry a pilot it's very possible. The Reaper-ER (which became with other improvements the Protector RG.1) can allegedly stay aloft for 42 hours...no external stores though. Stick anything on and you're going to come close to halving that though. Remember the Protector that flew into RAF Fairford for RIAT? It flew non-stop from North Dakota..over 3,800 miles with fuel to spare.

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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Postby Jake1992 » 26 Mar 2020, 13:23

Timmymagic wrote:
Jake1992 wrote:It’ll be interesting to see that’s for sure but does any UAV need a range of 3,000nm or a duration of 24hrs with out AAR? That is far greater than any manned fighter.


When you've got high lift, are efficiently cruising at 180 mph at 40,000ft with no need to carry a pilot it's very possible. The Reaper-ER (which became with other improvements the Protector RG.1) can allegedly stay aloft for 42 hours...no external stores though. Stick anything on and you're going to come close to halving that though. Remember the Protector that flew into RAF Fairford for RIAT? It flew non-stop from North Dakota..over 3,800 miles with fuel to spare.

Timmymagic wrote:
Jake1992 wrote:It’ll be interesting to see that’s for sure but does any UAV need a range of 3,000nm or a duration of 24hrs with out AAR? That is far greater than any manned fighter.


When you've got high lift, are efficiently cruising at 180 mph at 40,000ft with no need to carry a pilot it's very possible. The Reaper-ER (which became with other improvements the Protector RG.1) can allegedly stay aloft for 42 hours...no external stores though. Stick anything on and you're going to come close to halving that though. Remember the Protector that flew into RAF Fairford for RIAT? It flew non-stop from North Dakota..over 3,800 miles with fuel to spare.


I get that but as we’ve seen with manned air craft once you get in to the whole STOVL set up the range and duration come down. The question those wasn’t so much can it be done but is it needed, so we really need a carrier based UAV to do 3,000nm or would 1,000nm odd do the job ?

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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Postby seaspear » 26 Mar 2020, 20:59

When you add addittional abilities to the U.A.V would you be thinking of a litening or sniper pod for innfra red tracking against stealthy targets certainly link16 for targetting ,I understand the U.S is in the process of adding link16 to the mq-8c unmanned helicopters
https://www.flightglobal.com/defence/us ... 18.article
but rotary aircraft have a much lower ceiling height of course and dont provide the radar range of conventional powered aircraft and aremore detectable of course

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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Postby PhillyJ » 27 Mar 2020, 09:03

Well the lad is home and has a lot of interesting tales of being out at sea, apparently Uncle Ivan was very interested in the PWLS and was often out and about in the same area as them 'by chance'. He also came back with a lovely hardback book commemorating the Commissioning of the ship, in fact all the crew at that time got one free of charge, the book details the UK Carrier History, design, build and float out of PWLS as well as some shots of the crew at work and play. He is back on board Sunday evening for the 'forseeable' future, so not sure when we will see him again.

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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Postby inch » 27 Mar 2020, 10:55

Not surprised phillyj uncle Ivan was around pwls and greater than usual Russian activity around UK shores ,it's the old tactics of push harder in time of crisis on a country and see if there's any cracks appearing , response times , ability etc ,and it will probably continue apace.but probably one of the safest places to be right now onboard pwls which is comforting for you and your lad ,keep safe folks and don't add to the burden

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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Postby Timmymagic » 27 Mar 2020, 11:48

seaspear wrote:When you add addittional abilities to the U.A.V would you be thinking of a litening or sniper pod for innfra red tracking against stealthy targets


To all intents and purposes thats what any MQ-9 is carrying already.

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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Postby The Armchair Soldier » 27 Mar 2020, 12:30

Back to the carriers themselves now gents.

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Re: Queen Elizabeth Class Aircraft Carriers - News and Discussion

Postby PhillyJ » 01 Apr 2020, 13:45

The Armchair Soldier wrote:Back to the carriers themselves now gents.
Well that stopped the chatter!

Not much to report from me here, other than both Carriers will be laid up in Pompey for the foreseeable future as expected.

I see the USN has a potential problem on one of their Carriers, albeit one not deployed, with the virus and to be honest can see this impacting a RN vessel at some point due to the closeness of crew on them.

https://www.navytimes.com/news/your-navy/2020/03/31/theodore-roosevelt-captain-makes-urgent-plea-for-individual-quarantine-sites-as-covid-19-cases-multiply/


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