The CAMM-ER model shown at a couple of conferences has the same cold launch system but that probably doesn't mean diddly. I still doubt an entire extra deck would be needed as opposed to letting the top of the silo stick out an extra meter+. I suspect that producing a hot-launch version of CAMM-ER ...

CAMM-ER is one meter longer. I assume that means the VLS would have to be one meter deeper. A trivial design change. I suspect rather more than this will be required. The cold launch system will have to be appreciably more powerful (and therefore presumably bigger) to throw the 60% heavier missile ...

I like the idea of CAMM-ER as an alternative load for the T26's MK41 VLS should their AAW capabilities need beefing up, but the missile is much longer than CAMM so won't fit in standard CAMM silos, as I understand it - it probably needs a further deck's worth of space.

When I mention escort, I defiantly mean the latter, something that can protect other assets, such as logistics or a carrier. Sea Ceptor is claimed to have an effective range of 25 km, which means that any ship carrying it should be fine for escorting logistics etc ships, and should be able to make ...

The royal navy has a lack of escorts. So the solution is to have less escorts? Instead we make up a problem about freeing up escorts, or flag flying, or imaginary enemy's. If we have any light / lighter frigate, it needs to prove its self as a credible escort also. I am beginning to think that the ...

If an ASW T26 is not available (long term refit perhaps), its VDS can be easily transferred to one of the GP T26 to preserve ASW capability. The GP versions still having all the the same ASW requirements - quiet hull, quiet propulsion, bow sonar which cannot be guaranteed with other designs. If the...

T23 is notably larger than a La Fayette. So perhaps its just a simple fact that her hull design results in a little more of her sitting below the water line when loaded? Quite a lot more, if the figures are correct! Perhaps there should be four measures of displacement: standard, deep load, full lo...

So do you think 8 T26 can do the job of 13 refitted T23s? It's important to remember that only eight of the T23 carry the full, high-end ASW kit. The other five are effectively GP frigates which, even after their upgrade, will be high-end only in their defence against aerial attack, thanks to Sea C...

That would be easily explained by the fact full load is greater than deep load. The RN website and other sources more often quote the T23's full load. I went on a hunt for the various definitions of displacement and found this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Displacement_(ship)#Definitions which isn...

Tony, you are missing the point that the T23's are obsolete for high end ops. They need replacing with a warship built to today's standards capable of operating against today's threats. Certainly - that is what the T26 is for. The "lighter frigate" I have been suggesting is for low-to-med...

Don't understand. Do you mean 80% availability is 80% of the time a ship is "operational" or something else? I read your previous comments to mean 80% availability menas the ship is available 8o% of calendar time. I don't think it does hence my remark the RN will be lucky to have 2 T-45's...

The La Fayette are interesting. The T23's are around 10% bigger, but displace over 50% more, which must surely mean there is a big difference in build standards don't you agree? According to the latest version of Jane's Fighting Ships , the La Fayette class displaces 3,300 UK tons standard (3,353 t...

I think fitting that stuff on to a modern frigate in the 3,000-4,000 size range, and still have an effective future proofed platform is difficult. Those are fair points, although there are also counter-arguments: automation has moved on too, so ships can operate with smaller crews than in the past,...

I think the concept of a light frigate freeing up real escorts is something of a myth. Now I think the only 2 takings there that don't require a proper frigate is the Mediterranean deployment, and the Malta tasking. A question for you: do you regard the Type 23 as a "proper frigate"? If y...

But Tony there's not enough of them. Even the goverment says so (we need 19 escorts) so the t26-lite will have to play a part. I understand your arguments but their premise is false i.e. 14 frigates & destroyers are enough to protect a carrier goup. I think that the term "escort" mean...

Right now the royal navy if full of very credible assets, they can go any where, work with any one and make a very large contribution to security of where ever it is operating. The same cannot be true for a light frigate. The GP versions of the T23 do exactly that, and my concept of a 3,000-4,000 t...

Tony, I'm pretty sure that excludes time spent in scheduled refits i.e. it's the percentage of time the ship is available when it is supposed to be available. As opposed to percentage of all the time. Ron, according to the report (Warship World, Sept/Oct 2015, quoting an MoD response to a query abo...

shark bait wrote:
The type 23 is not a light frigate.

It's half the size of the T26 and similar to the French La Fayettes, which have been built as lower-cost and capability ships to complement the FREMMs and Horizons. Anything much smaller and you're getting towards corvette territory.

However I dont want a light frigate at all. I have explained my dislike for the type many times around here, I think it is a truely terrible concept. What we need is a real frigate that is a bit cheapr than the T26. It needs to be a fully capable escort becuase 6 escorts is not enough. Just what is...

The Italian Vulcano GLR (Guided Long Range) projectiles for the 5" gun have a maximum range of 80 km against ships, 100 km against land targets. That should deal with most threats. And at a lot less than these ranges, a terrorist group will be firing "blind". Indeed it does, and woul...

Your gun will be out ranged by missiles. The wild cat cant carry a big enough punch. Both are serious credibility issues. The Italian Vulcano GLR (Guided Long Range) projectiles for the 5" gun have a maximum range of 80 km against ships, 100 km against land targets. That should deal with most ...

Anti-ship missiles is what Sea Ceptor is specifically designed to counter, and I have consistently argued that they must be a part of the lighter frigate specification Indeed, now you have a ship that can protect its self for a time, but can't do anything about the people throwing missiles towards ...

- strip all the extras (gun, CIWS and Seaceptor are not extras, nor is helo capability... does not need to be onboarded all the time!) Considering that the light frigates seem likely to be operating by themselves for much of the time, I think that a hangar for a permanently on-board helo is essenti...

If I was designing a light frigate, i'd refer to the the T23's without the ASW fit as a basis then see what luxuries can be done without. Exactly so. A basically more efficient ship, with lower manning levels and cheaper machinery, but much the same size. With the 5" gun likely to have PGMs av...

The point of a light frigate is to carry out the routine low-to-medium threat work, i.e. mostly working on their own, far from the carriers, freeing up the high-end escorts to focus on carrier force protection. Here we are again designing ships to fight this imaginary low threat enemy. I don't know...