Remember when this was the poster boy for T31 - now a proper Patrol Frigate that would have been, but could they have done it for 250 GBP you have to ask? I asked the chap on the BMT stand at DSEI the same question back in 2017 and his answer was that they wouldn't be entering if they thought that ...

From where the crew is provided in the leased tanker? Also, I’m afraid the crew for Wave is 80 and largely different from the lease tanker = operation cost differs a lot?

First of all, fate of Wave class must be defined 1: AFTER MDP, 2: also after QECV's air-wing trials have ended. "1" wil define the fleet size, and F35B air-wing size, which has a big impact in AOR requirement. "2" will also define the oiler need, because realistic air-wing operat...

Not sure how relevant diligence or Argus are anymore to future uk operations. Very. Cant have carrier's without aviation training. What kind of aviation training ship do we need? Those for RAN and French navy is just imitating frigate's-flight-deck size. If this is enough, Wave itself is already ca...

Why not Corvette? Defining it as a short-range escort is based on WW2 Flowers, I guess. It was 80 years ago. For example, 80 years before 1940 is 1860, and the "Corvette" then was not the same definition as WW2 Corvettes. Also RN's last corvette = Castle class's range is 9500nm@10kts, not ...

When planning a fleet, defining commitment on budget and not ship hull number is a good idea, I agree. But, in this case, what is happening now on T26 is "nothing bad". As T26 was considered to be 350M GBP unit cost (or ~450M GBP in current rate, 2% inflation for 10 years), with (for examp...

Interesting. How was it in 2006-2016 fleet budget? How many percentages ship procurement got ? I am not sure it there is a source, but I know currently 600m GBP per year is not spent on surface-ship building. maybe there is a miss understanding here I am not saying that we are spending 600 million ...

T31e with 250m GBP will not have 4.5'' gun, no hull mounted sonar, no torpedo defence system, and not ASM. It will be added later. In that case it won't be a Frigate. History suggests very little will be added later. It isn't a frigate. I totally agree. Calling a 250m GBP ship a frigate is dishones...

If there was enough money to attempt a refit the 2 waves would that be much cheaper than buying a 5 tide for £140m I don’t know. Short comment. I read somewhere that Tide costed 550M GBP for 4 hull to Daewoo, and another 150M GBP for fitting out in UK. So, 700m GBP for 4 hulls --> 175m GBP per hull.

That is basically Leander, with a few other minor add ons...and BAE say it will cost £250 million if built to RN standards for crew accommodation and damage control... No, BAE were told it had to cost £250mn, there is a big difference. Cut the thrills that pad out the price and ask BAE what it woul...

I'm afraid 450m/yr + 150m/yr = 600m/yr is far away = Fantasy? It is OK that this thread is fantasy tread, but I myself think this is unlikely to happen. At this time i.e 2016 to 2026 the fleet budget is 19 billion pounds and clearly what I put over that time comes to 6 billion pounds so the money i...

Pongoglo-san, thanks. I'm afraid you cannot answer because of your duty, but; 1: Can you compare how much maintenance load is needed to operate 4.5inch gun, and compare it with 57mm or 76mm guns? I'm afraid of the additional onboard crew to support it. Its mechanics is becoming old, and not much hop...

What kind of "5 or even 6 genuinely useful vessels that would actually increase capability in some areas" can be built following the CL MV Attenborough ? I am not suggesting building anything on the SDA hull, it's more of a general point. I can see a Leander type vessel having a very basi...

Who says its "vulnerable to shock, and with very limited damage control"? If building a ship to plough through the ice thousands of miles away from help I'd expect it to be well built. Not sure, but I think the shock frequency differs a lot. How is that active sonar argument any different...

Timmymagic wrote:... 4.5 inch is perfectly acceptable, its better for AA work as well (and that matters with more and more drones) and for anti-FIAC work due to its higher ROF.

Is this true?

Ok, but being practical in the context of an isolated T31 programme aimed at keeping procurement and running costs low (£250 million), which is the the most realistic way of achieving this: 1) use GFE (4.5") that will remain commonality in service with the RN (T45, T23) 2) go with the 5" ...

The Polar Ship is designed for near silent operation at 12 knots, that's probably a bit slow for finding subs around the carriers, instead it would have to pick up other tasks, perhaps in the Atlantic? or protecting merchant shipping? or around an amphibious operation? If those tasks are in demand ...

They sold Largs Bay to save 12 million a year, i'll remind you... Manpower and fuel costed 8.7M GBP per year. It is well known that the "running cost" does not include equipments maintenance. (As shown as, MCMV running cost cheaper than Rivers) https://www.thinkdefence.co.uk/2016/05/rn-rf...

but I think whilst a low level one is definitely needed for UK BOT EEZs Why? Whats the threat? Who's coming for the Pitcairn islands? Or maybe Ascension? If UK is focussed on high-end warfare with small number of assets, enemy good at asymmetric war will be the major threat. If UK focuses on asymme...

....a shame the MOD are insisting on a Gun Boat instead of building on the success of the polar ship with a more utilitarian platform 100% Agree. RN could have 5 or even 6 genuinely useful vessels that would actually increase capability in some areas for the £1.25bn T31 budget. Unfortunately, mainl...

Repulse-san, interesting, and important discussion. Here, I put comments on some points. If the Reality is that the current spending plans and operational costs are too high to maintain, then doing nothing is not an option. Also, if the global strategic environment is rapidly changing then again doi...

VL-ASROC needs full width Mk.41 VLS. Not compatible with any quad-pack system, including ExLS adaptor.
Also, independent ExLS has similar dimensions, so surely not capable of carrying VL-ASROC.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/ ... _Types.gif

I agree increasing T26 (may be 2 or 1) is the best solution. (No hope for more money) But, NSbS says non BAE, and T31 came in. I’m afraid it cannot be changed in short, while T23 replacement is needed now. So I think T31 will come. If it is of new design, it will eat cost, take time, and reduce equi...

Venari 85 for EEZ patrol Venari 95 for MCMV and Combat MCMV, Littoral ASW and general patrol roles Venari 110/115 for T31 requirement including blue water ASW The Venari 110/115 differs a lot from other versions. I think it can just be Leander. I see no merit on Venari 110/115 over Leander. Therefo...

Leander doesn't look like it would survive a real war so what is the point? If this is news it is depressing ... Define ' real war' ?? Can't believe there's me defending Leander..lol! Although I am not the moderator here, I'm afraid we shall move to escort thread? Distributing the same discussion i...