There is a lot of talk of “mass” but in no war since 91 has it been shown that mass beat’s technology in the fighting stage. There has been no serious peer on peer naval clash for many generations hence why the theory of mass is currently unpopular. I think it’s more straightforward than you sugges...

From post 98 review which was my reference the defence has barely moved it has been between 2-2.5% of gdp as your graph shows. My main point is, if you are managing an organisation that has procurements stretching decades into the future and your funding is halved over 10 to 15 years it’s devastati...

It made its bed now it is lying in it. It wasn’t RN that made the bed. Between the early 1990’s and the mid 2000’s HMG virtually halved UK Defence spending despite getting entangled in wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. RN can not and should not be blamed for idiotic decisions by politicians. 7AB4FD78-9...

Why are the RN wasting time and money on this. Launch and recovery gear for UAVs for refuelling , AWACS and Loyal Wingman is fine. But trying change to a full CATOBAR carrier again? There are umpteen other more pressing requirements than that. My initial reaction was that RN must have suddenly foun...

My vote would be for Gannet or Sea Gannet after our previous, fixed-wing, single prop, ASW and AEW platform! Good choice! As it’s a first for the Royal Navy my vote would be for VAMPIRE in memory of Eric “Winkle” Brown’s first landing of a jet aircraft on a ship when he landed on HMS Ocean on 3rd D...

Also speeding up type 26 could leave a gap between type 26 and 83 for me maybe the better option would be to build 3 more type 31 at the speed we are going now we then keep them or sell them My main point is turning this mess into a plus scenario rather than a minus scenario. This has the potential...

well if we take the 50 million as a figure then all 5 RB2's could be fitted with a 3D radar and 40mm plus be given 2 or 3 Jackal UAV's in a POD each I have no objection apart the liquidation of a Bay to achieve it. If the T23’s are decommissioned without the multi-year refits hundreds of millions o...

Sorry yes, ESF… which is a LRG plus a CSG (not both LRGs). Its a CSG plus the LSG which is effectively both LRGs. However, if this is the game being played then you want the LPD which can take a combination of fast Assault Craft, USVs and larger landing craft. Very different capability from four LC...

The only silver lining is that one of the GP T23s could be repurposed to a ASW role and kept on for a bit longer. Wouldn’t be the case with the T31 vs T26. I don't believe it is a silver lining making a GP into an ASW isn't just a case of hoisting a tail on board, there would be loads of work requi...

Repulse wrote: ↑30 May 2023, 21:43 Nope, let’s sell one to pay for other things. We need clarity and clear direction, wasting funds differing is just making things worse.

Largs Bay was gifted to Australia 12 years ago for £65m.

How much “clarity and clear direction” are you going to buy for another £50m?

….ESG…. Do you mean ESF as in the Expeditionary Strike Force? How often will the UK form an Expeditionary Strike Force? That’s both LRGs plus the CSG, very much a maximum effort scenario due to eye watering costs involved. If these new Assault Craft are LCVP sized then four of them will fit in a Ba...

I’ve always thought the Lifex made little sense. Old ships, worked hard - what’s the point. Far better surely to spend that money upgrading the RB2s and or adding mk41 to the Type 31s And also making the most of what is in the water. If the T23’s drop below 10 and considering the T45’s availablity ...

If Westminster is in such poor condition as to make refit unviable what about next few ships in line for refit we could start to see a rapid fall in Type 23 numbers the RN will need to keep 8 Type 23 ASW going until they can be replaced by Type 26 but if things get to bad we might need to fit CAPTA...

Cue the more Admirals than ships jokes…

6x Norway with potential of some built here - Unlikely The Norweigan frigates will likely be built in another country, with some modules built in Norway as the Fridtjof Nansen class was. But IMO T26 is more of an option, the Fridtjof Nansen class was designed as an ASW frigate that carries a TAS (C...

donald_of_tokyo wrote: ↑29 May 2023, 15:53 simply because RN cannot man them.

Agreed but is a headcount increase actually part of the T32 proposal?

If so is this one of the reasons why the T32 program is deemed unaffordable?

Boxer is just too expensive to do everything and the Army needs to find its T31. Patria AMV? Exactly. The Patria 6x6 looks more and more like the most cost effective way for the Army to add mass. The Amphibious capability and working more closely with our Nordic allies are just more bonuses. Ditchi...

I’m not saying the Vard or other designs are right, but ships like these could be modified to RN standards and built under licence in a fraction of the time and cost it takes currently. Completely agree. Using familiar hull forms Vard is able to rapidly tailor each vessel to each navies requirement...

SD67 wrote: ↑29 May 2023, 09:45Why try to do two in one?

The T32 is more like three in one.

1. Off-board systems
2. FCF
3. Frigate

It’s a big ask for a modestly sized vessel.

The speed of the PSVs is one of the negatives if a patrol capability is required.

I don't think the Vard 7-313 needs a 57mm and NS110 or Artisan I think it would be fine with SAAB Giraffe 1X and 2 x 40mm as said CAMM & Spear could be POD based the Vard would be HICAP OPV and not a Frigate and the price should be set at 130 million for this type of ship I think the main point...

Why not the Absalon class? Good question! It’s the obvious choice given the T31’s lineage but there are a number of reasons why I don’t think it’s the best choice for RN when funds are tight. Absalon is an older design than Iver Huitfeldt so it’s likely the T32 would be a A140 with Absalon features...

Why does it need a next gen OPV now ? It doesn't need any itself. Current planning has the T31’s relieving the forward based RB2’s starting around 2028 when the RB1’s decommission. Therefore RN needs to start designing the next-gen OPV now to get them in build by 2026 when three of the RB2’s start ...

If the RN needs a better RM carrier, get more MRSS. What is an MRSS? We don't know the role of T32 Not exactly but the ASF is pointing the way. We also know that five of them will cost upwards of £2.5bn to build in the U.K. With a clean sheet design it will be £3bn+ which is simply unjustifiable in...

The future for T32 will likely be IMO as turbulent as the fiasco of T26 procurement…. It doesn’t need to be. Firstly RN must confirm that it really needs a Frigate with all of that capability packed into it. The simple fact is that only so much can be fitted into a vessel with a beam around 20m. Th...

It would be fair to say the River class has done well in exports with 5 ships 3 built in the UK and 2 over seas plus Clyde was sold on after service meaning 14 ships built 8 with the RN and 6 with 3 other navies Absolutley but RN and UK PLC needs a next-gen OPV now. Ideally with different variants ...