new guy wrote: ↑11 Apr 2024, 22:47

tomuk wrote: ↑11 Apr 2024, 22:45
But as always you're wrong we need five GPs just to stand still. Were you made redundant by Babcock or something because you sure have an axe to grind.

Exactly. T31 just are the minimum, the lowest we can go.

Why is it? What’s the priority - utter nonsense

I am not arguing against your points only that unless the budget rises adding additional T26 will do nothing to address the problems with fleet balance. It’s not a priority if a balanced fleet is the goal. • The cost of 2x T26 would probably procure another 10x P8 at £200m unit. What impact would t...

Yes, 100%. Why? Because they drunk the cool aid that you can have the same effect with cheaper ships ignoring the requirement. The threat to Australia and the region is not going to be solved by GP assets with compromised ASW capabilities. Chinas threat is going to be subsurface and its CBGs. Well ...

A couple of reminders that a good ASW ship isn’t about just adding a modularised TAS.

https://ukdefencejournal.org.uk/i-went- ... b-frigate/

https://ukdefencejournal.org.uk/the-typ ... -is-quiet/

I think an interesting example of a company type operation by the Royal Marines and type of ship required for it , is the 2002 45 commando company deployment for operation anaconda. Would probably require a CVF, but doable. I would add the operations Paraquet and Highbrow and ones that should be mo...

The only way this has a chance IMO is that this class is the only new one in the 2030s. If the Albions are not to return the replacements are needed now. The luxury of everything being needed a decade away is over for the foreseeable. How much money is going to be pissed away on endless concepts an...

Any illusion that build a new “cheaper” (read compromised) class in a multi-national program and it will be a success is just that, an illusion - albeit sadly one that the Treasury will believe. Are you suggesting the Australians have got it completely wrong with their smaller, more numerous ASW ve...

Tempest414 wrote: ↑11 Apr 2024, 09:23 As the cost of type 26 B2's carries on climbing if we want ASW hunter killers then maybe more SSN's would be better

The cost isn’t climbing - but yes a few (2-3) more T26s and a few more SSNs would be ideal - however believe it or not the crewing issues are easier to solve above water currently.

What interested me was the line about how the "budget is different". Which I'm taking as a very diplomatic and polite way of saying what I speculated above... I must admit I took it as the RN dreaming that their unsecured budget was bigger, only for reality to bite later when it’s too lat...

new guy wrote: ↑10 Apr 2024, 23:51 It's been nearly a month now

The writing has been on the wall since the end of last year

Poiuytrewq wrote: ↑19 Dec 2023, 18:54

It’s a fair point, but the last thing we need is another class of ASW frigate I’m not suggesting it’s the best direction of travel but the benefits are clear. • A joint £5bn program with a NATO member to produce 10x next-gen GP Frigates optimised for off-board systems including ASW. • Rosyth is sec...

Well they have but that is also for a submarine fleet renewal and that is expensive and a new air defence system of the patriot variety which isn’t cheap either. That’s a fair point also - just think this is for the BAE to lose and by having another five+ T26s in the North Atlantic is a game changer.

It’s a MINIMUM of 5 Frigates. Ok, but you don’t write that unless the discussion starts with can five ships meet the requirement. I am not arguing just stating if it is 5x or more T26, when could BAE hope to deliver them and not impact the RN schedule? Conversely, if it was 5x or more ASW optimised...

Poiuytrewq wrote: ↑10 Apr 2024, 20:36 It’s a MINIMUM of 5 Frigates.

Ok, but you don’t write that unless the discussion starts with can five ships meet the requirement.

Even with the substantial hike in defence spending, is the Royal Norwegian Navy realistically going to be able to afford 5 x T26? It seems to me that it might be worth them considering either a 2 + 3 or a 3 + 2 mix with T31. Alternatively, 5 x FREMM or similar. 5 FDI or joining the new danish navy ...

I have a feeling that the T32 and MRSS requirements and programs are about to get blurred.

So British ships, even if developed in partnerships, could be significantly different, so Dutch ones could have flight deck while British ones might not. Apologies, spotted the same and posted on the amphibious post. However, I didn’t see the same conclusion, only that the RN needs them to operate ...

RunningStrong wrote: ↑09 Apr 2024, 19:55 This is cheap kit, we shouldn't need it to be FFBNW.

It is and what’s more a CMS isn’t needed to operate it - the Amazonas class does not have one. But people will argue why waste a few £10’s mns whilst arguing we need to waste £100’s mns on light frigates.

This armament is therefore mainly intended as a last resort. This means that the ships are better armed than the patrol ships, but there is not much difference. The ATSs are intended for operations in the highest spectrum of violence, such as an amphibious landing. But they must be protected by fri...

Has to be CAUKUS - just waiting for NZ to join so it can be CAUKNZUS

Absolutely - it can also easily add additional automated guns port and starboard also. A 40/57mm gun and two dual feed 30mms would future proof the ships for another decade with minimal cost.

Given the reduction in platforms, I would argue a UK based OPV class that can act as a USV/UUV mothership is not a low priority luxury it’s essential. For what purpose? To do what the B1 Rivers to right now - EEZ patrolling, anti terrorism, anti drug trafficking and supporting littoral operations. ...

Given the reduction in platforms, I would argue a UK based OPV class that can act as a USV/UUV mothership is not a low priority luxury it’s essential. For what purpose? To do what the B1 Rivers to right now - EEZ patrolling, anti terrorism, anti drug trafficking and supporting littoral operations.

I know this is all fantasy and unlikely in the current climate but forgive me this indulgence. No problem with a fantasy fleet, we all have them. My comment is let’s not replace ships that are doing the job rather well already with more expensive ones just because it feels a good idea. It needs to ...