I am describing a low cost helicopter carrier in the style of the Ocean class with a crew of 190 to 230 ( Oceans crew was 265) capable of supporting a LSU + SF units but also capable of using emerging tec like MALE drones RN has to change from this fixed crew allocation model to a core number plus ...

If the LRGs are only conducting HADR and facilitating SF why even bother with RM at all? The role of the RMs is bigger than LRGs, as you’ve pointed out combined with the CSG it will be a capable force, just not in the traditional war fighting brigade that people still seem to cling on. How do you s...

Cuts coming to pay for this from existing budgets.

If money has gone to CEPP it’s because it’s the priority, it is one of the few top tier levers we have. Its a question of balance. The fleet must achieve a credible balance. Going all in on CASD and CEPP is not smart unless other capabilities are maintained. If not, adversaries simply adapt and ope...

What are you expecting this “forward deployed rapid reaction littoral force” to do? And where? If it’s anything more than limited HADR or a SF raid in a low threat maritime environment (not sure where this is actually a scenario) then the group will be waiting for the CSG in any case. Better to ens...

I’m also concerned that part of the LHD discussion is about replaying the CVF discussion. LHDs can have limited fixed wing capabilities, but that’s it they are limited. The CVFs are real aircraft carriers designed to go up against peer nations and sustain air operations for a long period. Again, co...

new guy wrote: ↑12 Jul 2023, 20:22 what is CEPP?

Carrier Enabled Power Projection

Can you quote an instance where fixed wing drones have been deployed with "minimal support"? See here. https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/mojave-drone-rapidly-deployment-from-c-130-shown-in-new-concept-video They are for SELS (Short Endurance Littoral Strike). They do not need to be su...

That is an entirely different class in terms of affordability and maintainability. Adding a MALE drone capabilities add a massive new layer of complexity, making the ship much more intensive to run, precluding forward basing, and will end up with less days at sea. While it would be a good capabilit...

It well could be what’s required and in my view a gd model for us but I go back to this point that was traded away to buy the carriers you’ll not get it back now. IMO that’s too negative. I agree the case is yet to be made for the LHDs but if naval MALE drones are going to dominate the Littoral for...

So much for the spin about rising defence spending.

https://ukdefencejournal.org.uk/britain ... r-in-nato/

An LHD moves you toward a position where the ship could be used as a sea control vessel which an assortment of aircraft and boats manned or otherwise for that end. Exactly what is required. The LHD/LSD combination is perfect as they can support each other, especially if a Karel Doorman RAS capabili...

This is a more dispersed and less intensive commando force than the past decades, which a big focus on forward basing, and building second tier task groups. Thats the official rhetoric but what is the reality? How are they actually going to be used? What will the size of the units actually be and h...

A Canberra type assault ship is the high end approach to the future amphibious capability. I worry the high end option is undeliverable…. Its a maximalist approach I agree but are the alternatives credible? I’m concerned the alternatives are more attractively cheap than convincingly credible. The l...

My thinking is if we had 2 LPH's as I have laid out above and 4 RFA LPD's with large well docks we would be in a good place if the LPH's had the Point class style rear ramps these could be used as steel beeches for off loading vehicles in the same way the Point class do No argument, it’s a viable a...

SW1 wrote: ↑10 Jul 2023, 18:56 If we did we could call it the St George’s

I’m completely on board with that provided it’s a multi-role vessel and RN add a MCM capability.

Another excellent overview.

https://www.navylookout.com/refining-th ... ssion-bay/

So with this said a new 225 bu 43 meter Ocean class with a angled fight deck with forward side lift and rear centre lift with Point class rear vehicle ramps would be a good ship It would but in my IMO it must be a LHD. Ocean’s layout is great but the hull shape is all wrong for conversion to a LHD....

£2.2bn over 5 years when we are building T26s, FSS and trying to build / purchase the future MCM (LSV) fleet. More realistic would be sub £1bn, and that’s if there are no OPV replacements or T32s. In that price bracket and spread over a longer period (the current LPDs will go on for a few more year...

I would also invite Canada into JEF to cement the forces in the North Atlantic. What would they actually contribute? European NATO should have GIUK sealed up tighter than a drum without any help from the US or Canada. The European naval resources are huge, many of which are not ideally suited to op...

It’s too full of ifs and wishful thinking to be a plan that stands up to reality IMO. There is little to no contingency that anyone that manages budgets know means that painful and short term decisions has to be made when the inevitable issues hit. Really??? Are you aware that Babcock is Ukraines p...

…the equipment plan gives the Navy about £1.5 Billion each year to buy new things with, of which £1.2 Billion is allocated to ships; The top tier escorts will be consuming about £500 million / year Second tier will be consuming about £350 million / year (£2 billion spend over 5 ships) Leaving aroun...

The navy needs to nail down what it wants and secure funding for it. It needs to say what it wants , why it needs it and what benefit buying and building said ships has to UK PLC & HMT Agreed. The placeholder MRSS must be replaced by a fully costed, credible and balanced Amphibious fleet. Contr...

I certainly agree that we can't afford the 5*T31B2 / T31, both in terms of current lack of budget available to build them, and the current lack crew to man them. So I think 24 escorts is an unlikely pipedream for this decade - unlikely before mid 2030s if not longer. If RN is going to shred the Amp...

They’ve been “better managing” the budget for decades with little sign of much difference to be honest. We have to accept we cut our cloth accordingly until we do things won’t improve. Completely agree. My point is if funding can be secured for the T32 program (~£2.5bn) and the Amphibious replaceme...