Leander 120, if added with CAPTAS2 or 4CI (not 4), can be a "good" (if not superb) ASW asset, comparable to NATO allie's ASW frigates (Nansen, FTI, M-class, PPA...). - a 57 mm gun - 12 CAMM - 2x 30 mm gun and 20mm CIWS - new ESM and decoy kits - 25 knots in 2 Diesel full power for dash, an...

Poiuytrewq wrote:In my view it is very simple. Sell the RB2's and build the Bay's..... (Sorry Donald)

?? The cost differs a lot. Tactical Bay, to my understanding, will cost 300-500M GBP at minimum. Selling River B2 will give us 70-100M GBP per hull. Far far away in cost.

shark bait wrote:It isn't, the River class has Zero effect on that environment, it is pointless.

Do not agree. We agree we do not agree here, so I think it is OK.

shark bait wrote:At best an OPV + UAV is going to be able to sail around and defend itself, an effect that can be achieved much cheaper by never existing in the first place.

Existing and not existing differs a lot, (To be or not to be). But, I think our discussion is now shifting out of the original issues.

How are you going to strap a few hard ass marines on a UAV to go a kick terrorist ass? That role needs a helicopter that can move people, and preferably that old version of wildcat that has a big gun in the back! Using Wildcat to a terrorits who may have MANPADS is not a good idea. You are thinking...

River B2 is not a ship for warfighting, but it may be asked to cover anti-torrerists patrol Nope. Need a wildcat for that. Send a Bay. Why not a UAV? Bay is large and low damage control target. To keep terrorists away, it will need 4 or 5 Wildcats. It is good, but a different level of capability. I...

Note that it states, Electric drive speed is 12knots, with 700kWx2 = 1400 kW power. For comparison, Khareef's electric power was 280kWx2 = 560kW for 7.5 knots. Power is 2.5 time larger. In general, in low speed power needed is proportional to the square of the speed. So, 7.5 x sqrt(2.5) = 11.8 knot...

New CML/BAE web site promoting Leander design... http://www.leanderfrigate.com Leander_performance.jpg Note that it states, Electric drive speed is 12knots , with 700kWx2 = 1400 kW power. :clap: For comparison, Khareef's electric power was 280kWx2 = 560kW for 7.5 knots. Power is 2.5 time larger. In...

Update on River B2 modification plan. This is the series of "Prepare for cuts."; What if T31e is canceled, and RN are forced to live with 6 T45, 8 (or 9 or 10) T26, and 4+5 OPVs? River B2 is not a ship for warfighting, but it may be asked to cover anti-torrerists patrol (Red sea, Oman and ...

abc123 wrote:https://navaltoday.com/2018/08/03/royal ... -upgrades/
HMS Defender back in service, with two new gas turbines.

So she replaced the WR21 cores. Only 5 years after commissioning?

I think 37% is not correct (simply because it is the number proposed from ship-building industry insiders). Surely, Treasury can do the calculation. It is politics, to ORDER Treasury to do it. HMG tax take is 36.9% of GDP (please see link to a recent IFS study below), so any portion of the project ...

I think MOD must stop promising number of hulls to be built. Just list the candidate project, such as 1-2) future frigates made of ASW frigates and GP frigates 3) future MHPC (which may or may not be made of 2 class, MHC and OPV) 4) future SSShips 5-6) future landing and logistic landing ships. and ...

As a simple example. Say we wanted to buy a certain widget that cost £120 in the UK. We can buy it for £100 in South Korea. However, if we order the UK widget, the tax paid by the company and workers making that widget comes straight back to us. If the tax return is 20 per cent, the bottom line pri...

I'd love to see the quote that supports this Speech by Admiral Sir Philip Jones, First Sea Lord. ........ broadly speaking, the Type 31e will need a hanger and flight deck for both a small helicopter and unmanned air vehicle, accommodation to augment the ship’s company with a variety of mission spe...

I was under the impression that plane guard ships went out of style 50 years ago. Helicopters do a much better job these days. HMS Cornwall did it for USS JC Stennis on May 2007. I am not sure if the term "plane guard" is literally it, or just a name of the close-defense escort. But, it l...

The £400m to £500m sale price for the RB2's could be used to turbo charge the T31 programme, kick start the MHPC programme or modernise the Amphibious fleet. Bit optimistic, Brazil bought three off us for £133 million at the beginning of the decade. Just because we paid through the roof for 5 crapp...

I agree with the economic when looked at as a whole but that doesn't help the Defence Budget. If the ships cost 30" more to build in the UK then that is 30% that cannot be spent elsewhere. Now if that 30% was covered by a DTI subsidy for regional growth or similar then fine. Not that simple. M...

I agree with the economic when looked at as a whole but that doesn't help the Defence Budget. If the ships cost 30" more to build in the UK then that is 30% that cannot be spent elsewhere. Now if that 30% was covered by a DTI subsidy for regional growth or similar then fine. Not that simple. M...

With 25 knots top speed, and fleet speed being 16 knots to my understanding, in many situation I think it will work. River B2 is larger than WW2 River class frigates. 25kts in ideal flat calm conditions. They may keep up at fleet speed but not speed required to match a carrier launching heavy aircr...

can be used as a guard-ship in air operations, leaving precious expensive helicopters "at rest". Don’t have the speed. Sorry, but they’d offer nothing to a carrier group. If anything they’d be an impediment. May be for full blue water operations, but transiting shallower and cluttered wat...

If the RN wants to get more use from the B2s why do they not bolt the Army's CAMM version on to it. It could link to the current combat system and give them another medium range (25km) air defence node? In the context of even a Falklands 2 type scenario it would be of great value. Who pays for it? ...

I just feel the best way a lightly armed OPV can take a look at a suspicious ship is at arms length with a UAV In that case, CV itself can handle it. But I think UAV and a ship has a different role. there is a lot of clutter there like the deck lighting bar would weapon clear this Yes. But it is th...

It would be interesting to know what the thinking is behind the 16 ton crane and how much use it will get. Maybe on the last 2 ships replacing the crane with Phalanx mounts allowing these ship to be fitted with the weapon when deployed over seas I guess the crane is to handle containers by themselv...

Interesting stuff Donald. Aren't these roles the sort of thing that the T31 is (or was) intended to do? Assuming it is still going ahead... Exactly it is the tasks T31e are expected to do. Because “more T26” discussion directly means “by cutting T31”, I am proposing to use River B2 opvs to cover th...

Sorry this not fantasy for me. Just proposing to use River B2 with CVTF. Mounting CIWS is not much different from mounting a UAV container, which I think is a serious proposal. Mounting CIWS is a serious proposal for me, much more realistic than adding a 57 mm gun, more realistic than UAV, and is ve...