That doesn't make sense.... Frigates are the eyes and ears of the fleet. Their effectiveness is not measured by the number of missiles they carry. Focussing merely on the 5 GP T23s doesn't make sense either. Little more capable than the proposed T31 and with a huge crew which is the real problem the...

In putting on my tin hat, but how about looking at arming the T31e with 2 to 3 57mm guns with smart ammo, for close defence and also have space for (but not necessarily adding) a 8 cell MK41 launcher for commonality for future AAW, ASuW and ASW missiles. US Navy and coast guard experience seems to ...

Is there such a budget? My understanding is that it is a prgrm that incentivises several companies to work together long term, as the orders (when a budget is raised) will come to them) I don't think either of us are going to pretend to understand the way the MoD accounts for it's expenditures. The...

Well the RFI says Lloyds Naval Rules, and so do the competitors. Within that spectrum, between float, flee and fight it seems they've plumbed for flee which isn't in any way unreasonable given their mission. If T31 can merely survive, get out of danger, and wait for the big boys toys to turn up then...

The most interesting parts of the RFI are the build standards, which are Lloyds Naval Rules with some flexibility rather than as advertised commercial by default, and the missions it must be adaptable for. Also a return to armour is mooted for crew protection. Hence proper warships, though lightly a...

You can't look at the outside of a hull to decide whether it is merchant standard Donald.

The Scorpion has been looked at several times. It's a heap of crap. Explains why Saab weren't playing ball with any of the likely bidders, they wanted the contract for themselves! The stripped down non combat capability is, unfortunately, inevitable given the hours needed and costs allocated. Almost...

I suspect the first two will indeed be £250m, the FFBNWs in SJPs report. Which actually makes a lot of sense. Get the yards used to building them, ironing out snags and reaping the production efficiency for the latter ones. The Government therefore gets a headline figure of £250m and the RN then has...

So, for your £250m quid each bidder is going to offering as much as they can up to the price point. Hence the fundamentally more expensive designs will probably offer less kit. But more upgradeability. Come 2028 when the first ASW T23s start decommissioning there might even be some goodies to pinch....

That's clearly the threat. Ok so three orders for £3.7 Bn. Lets say the first austere T31s come in on budget and at least one is doing a bit of floating in it's spare time come 2023 whilst HMS Argyll's crew get reroled prior to her scrapping. Meanwhile they're negotiating with Baes for the further 5...

I think I know what the design rationale for the Arrowhead was. It involved tracing paper. And a deeply held desire to piss on Baes' chips. :D It's a 4000t T26. https://www.babcockinternational.com/-/media/Images/Arrowhead/Arrrowhead--Body--Large-image-600x370.ashx?h=370&la=en&w=600&hash...

1SL's speech from today..

https://www.gov.uk/government/speeches/ ... 1e-frigate

Leanders, Rothesays, Type 21s and the like were hardly laughing stocks. In fact Leanders were the last warships that we exported in reasonable numbers. I suspect your impression of the RN's reputation wouldn't survive reality. It doesn't matter whether it's a rowboat or the QE paying a port visit, i...

The Avenger always was the most likely. I doubt any optional extras will happen on the first batch. Lean manned tubs in the water which are relatively simple to build is the key. Once the learning curve is making the production more efficient you can start adding gucciness. Which also means complexi...

Oddly enough other than a second VLS and Chinook capable deck the Arrowhead does indeed look like a T26 lite. Mission deck looks like a half width copy and paste. Looks like a well dock for workboats and separate hatch for UUVs. Claiming a crew of 80 too. Would be quite happy if we got some of those...

The silhouette looks like Babcock's Arrowhead to me. https://www.babcockinternational.com/Case-Studies/Arrowhead The bits in blue are what we'll get. 57mm satisfies both the CIWS and anti-FAC capability. Hence is a no brainer. Saying that if you take the bits in red they could be quite capable. 4000...

Does rather reinforce the idea, which caused some fury on Tracey Island, that certain yards were holding a gun to their own heads. Time is money and if you build them as slowly as you can they end up costing. China is chucking out 4 or 5 frigates a year, can't be arsed looking but they're not taking...

And are they addressing the elephant in the room.........having 5 frigates built is one thing along side the 8 type 26 crewing them is a completely different issue or does the government suspect the economey will nose dive making joining the armed forces appealling? Fallon announced an extra 400 bo...

I think an ex wonk has been reading this thread.....

https://thinpinstripedline.blogspot.co. ... grade.html

Not quite Donald. Think of it in terms of fight, flight or float. For instance the USN LCS is only designed to float if it takes hits, or a hit. Long enough to get the crew off. This is the street fighter concept where lots of small cheap and fast tubs can swarm an enemy, though the cost overruns an...

donald_of_tokyo wrote:2. The RN will not accept a warship built to lesser standards than a River B2 which was built to RN frigate standards. Therefore a 4,000 ton OPV is out of the question.

They weren't.

You can clearly see this from the walkthrough, the 3D design software.

As a naval engineer in the Royal Danish Navy i can tell you that both of your statements are factually wrong. While standard flex was never used exactly like it was originally intended as part of the quick role change concept( which was quickly discarded), modules are however swapped , perhaps not ...

- one Venator is in build for Columbia; military fitting out for it will be done in the same place that handled the Kiwis' upgrade (in Canada); so the argument is only valid for Spartan What, really? Actually in build? I saw the proposal/bid, didn't realise a contract was awarded and build programm...

Think it was SJP who invented the heavy and light. His suggestion was that the first two were to be fitted for both not withs. Hence could be sold from under the RN's feet and configured to the end customer's requirements. Makes a lot of sense to build them that way too. Reduces the initial build co...

Just a mental exercise... Say the Army gave up almost entirely on independent operations, or deploying a mythical division. Instead it would reorient itself to providing reinforcement to an ally, whether that be a Nato op or fleshing out a mainly infantry force still using SMLEs. In other words defe...